<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">That would seem to be your view — not mine. I believe libertarianism is the best way to live in society. That’s why I advocate it. (Before anyone here gets the wrong idea, I wrote that I “believe [it’s] the best” not that it’s the only way. I bet without this parenthetic comment someone would respond with “people have lived for thousands of years in societies — heck even back to the origin of humanity if one defines society broadly enough — and they weren’t practicing libertarianism.”)<div><br></div><div>Why would think I believed they (libertarianism and society) were incompatible? It seems to me you presume that the only way to live in society is under some form of systematic oppression like a state and its attendant hierarchies. If that’s an accurate rendering of your view, then it’s you who believes they incompatible. (Elsewhere, someone called this the Robinson Crusoe fallacy: that one must choose between freedom and society. That fallacy seems quite widespread. To me, it’s similar to how many people believed being lorded over by aristocrats was the price to be paid for living in society. Don’t fall for that line.)</div><div><br><div dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;"><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Regards,</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Dan</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> Sample my Kindle books at:</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">http://author.to/DanUst</span></p></div></div></div><div><div style="line-height: normal;"></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 10, 2020, at 5:33 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Do you think 'libertarianism' and 'society' are incompatible? bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 7:25 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I don’t disagree, but remember I am not the one pining for ever coercive intrusion into folks’ lives here.<div><br><div dir="ltr"><div style="line-height:normal"><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Regards,</span></div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Dan</span></div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"> Sample my Kindle books at:</span></div><div style="line-height:normal"><p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><span style="font-size:12pt"><a href="http://author.to/DanUst" target="_blank">http://author.to/DanUst</a></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style="line-height:normal"></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 10, 2020, at 4:48 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">No, nothing special about disagreement about a concept, except for the people who need help and may not be getting it because of how a concept is or is not applied to them. bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 6:31 PM Dan Ust via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">My point remains though: there’s nothing special about disagreement in this area save its impact on policy and public attitudes. I mean there are disagreements over what a concept is, what a word is, what matter is, etc.<div><br></div><div>I agree there’s another problem with behavioral and mental health issues in that social appropriateness and ideology often impinge much more heavily than, say, on things like defining what a concept or what a planet is. But that goes for more concepts than just addiction — as you note.</div><div><br><div dir="ltr"><div style="line-height:normal"><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Regards,</span></div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Dan</span></div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"> Sample my Kindle books at:</span></div><div style="line-height:normal"><p style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><span style="font-size:12pt"><a href="http://author.to/DanUst" target="_blank">http://author.to/DanUst</a></span></p></div></div></div><div><div style="line-height:normal"></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 10, 2020, at 1:58 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I am quite sure that government agencies, for one, have definitions of addiction they are forced to use. In medical areas one must have a diagnosis before you can assign a treatment. That doesn't make any of them the only one, the best one, and so on. You could probably accurately say this about any mental health diagnosis - they change over time. Not only that, but the words used are changed, like from 'mental retardation' (which itself was a change from 'idiot, imbecile, moron') to 'developmental dysfunction' or something like that. bill </div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>