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    John Clark wrote<br>
    <br>
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      cite="mid:mailman.202.1579386252.13152.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
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              style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span
                style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sat,
                Jan 18, 2020 at 9:55 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a
                  href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>>
                wrote:</span><br>
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                <p> <span class="gmail_default"
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                  </span><i>it's possible that we could identify a
                    specific pattern in the large-scale networks, and
                    show that it's necessary and sufficient to produce
                    the sensation of the colour 'strawberry'.</i></p>
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            <div><span class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span><font
                size="4">I don't think that's possible at all, in fact
                I'd say it's a logical impossibility. You might be able
                to show that a specific network pattern in a human
                biological brain was <b>sufficient</b> to cause a mouth
                to make a noise like "<i>I am experiencing the visual
                  qualia I experience when I look at a strawberry</i>",
                or cause a electronic computer to print out the
                corresponding ASCII sequence when it is in the
                corresponding network state. But how in the world could
                you ever prove the man and the AI were experiencing the
                same visual qualia, or even prove either of them were
                experiencing a qualia at all? And even if you could
                somehow magically do that how could you prove it was <b>necessary</b>,
                how could you prove that some other network state or
                even something that had nothing to do with networks
                couldn't produce the same thing? There are after all an
                infinite number of things that have nothing to do with
                networks just as there are a infinite number of things
                that do<span class="gmail_default"
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                so you can't try them all.</font></div>
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            <font size="4">People are spending way too much time
              worrying about Artificial Consciousness, I say just
              concentrate on Artificial Intelligence, once you have that
              you'll get consciousness for free; it is after all the
              tactic that Evolution used and it produced you and me and
              I am a conscious being, you probably are too although I
              can't prove it.</font></div>
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    I agree with what you say, especially the last bit. I meant
    'necessary' in the context of a human brain, not any system, and I'm
    assuming that hearing someone claiming they can see the colour
    strawberry-red is enough evidence that they can see it.<br>
    <br>
    Proving that two separate brains (of whatever kind) are experiencing
    the same thing is of course impossible. That's not what I mean. I
    mean it should be possible to point to a specific thing in a
    specific beings brain and say that is what's causing their
    experience (or, rather, that's what 'their experience' <b>is</b>).<br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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