<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">Well, in order to apply rights in a real world situation -- have them respected -- the problem would be convincing others. Therein lies the problem. (A problem not limited to advocates of rights or to libertarians. It's a general problem with agreement among enough people to a given social practice. I don't think it insurmountable. If I did, I'd probably leave it as a theoretical concern -- a la, "Wouldn't it be nice if enough people agreed on X, but that's not going to happen, so let's move along to other topics.":)) You could bounce this as "What difference does it make then?" I believe Roderick Long came up with a decent response to this:<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">http://freenation.org/a/f42l1.html#4.3</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Note his distinction between normative, legal, and de facto rights.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Let me step back for a second too. My claim that no one has a right to rule anyone else -- and no one has a duty to obey anyone else -- isn't an argument that each person gets to define what rights are -- no more than each of us speaking a natural language gets to define what's grammatical. Instead, it simply means no one has authority over anyone else and no one has a duty to anyone else as an authority. This is another of saying no one owes obedience to someone else's dictates -- that no individual creates rights or duties in any godlike fashion. Instead, these arise -- in Long's view -- from what persons are and how they live and interact. The idea here isn't "No one has a right to tell me what to do, so I can make up shit about how far I can swing my fist."</div><div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px;"><br></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px;">Regards,</span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px;"><br></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px;">Dan</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px;"> Sample my Kindle books at:</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><p style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">http://author.to/DanUst</span></p></div></div></div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div class="ydp86cf3b38yahoo-style-wrap" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10px;"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div></div><div><br></div></div><div id="ydpd8dc4ff6yahoo_quoted_0043876255" class="ydpd8dc4ff6yahoo_quoted" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><div style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; color: rgb(38, 40, 42);"><div>On Saturday, January 18, 2020, 04:27:12 PM PST, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" dir="ltr" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="link" x-apple-data-detectors-result="2" style="color: currentcolor;">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div><div><br></div><div><div id="ydpd8dc4ff6yiv6816735924"><div class="ydpd8dc4ff6yiv6816735924gmail_quote"><div class="ydpd8dc4ff6yiv6816735924yqt5980462113" id="ydpd8dc4ff6yiv6816735924yqtfd97605"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>That may not have been how it originated, but what I was pointing out was how, in your post, it seemed to be sliding toward entirely self-defined "rights". As you rightly point out here, that slide is problematic.</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>