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On 21/01/2020 19:14, Brent Allsop wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.222.1579634044.13152.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">So, Ben, Please. From here on out, whenever
I say glutamate,
please replace that word with a description of whatever physics
you most likely
think is a description of redness</span></blockquote>
<br>
You ask that we substitute whatever we think is responsible for
'elemental redness' for glutamate, but the whole point of my
arguments is that <i>there is no such thing as 'elemental' qualia
at all</i>. It's a nonsense concept. You talk of 'the physics' of
perception, but the physics is not the important thing. The
informatics is. We know this for a fact, from countless neurology
studies and experiments (many of them unintentional, the results of
accidents). We know that even a slight change in the wiring of the
brain (not a change in its biochemistry, note. Not a change in
materials, but a change in structure) can deprive someone of the
ability to perceive or understand certain things, or add perceptions
they never had before. Changes in their qualia. This can't be
explained if these perceptions are somehow 'elemental', tied to
materials, because it's not that all the GABA, for instance, has
been removed from their brain. It's the <i>wiring</i> that has been
changed. The patterns of information have changed, nothing else.<br>
<br>
Qualia are not elemental properties of anything, they are patterns
of information.<br>
<br>
If you can't see that, or simply won't contemplate it, there's
really no point talking any further.<br>
<br>
You're in the position of someone who, when presented with two brick
buildings, one circular and one square, and told that the circular
one is much better at withstanding battering rams, jumps to the
conclusion that the bricks in the circular building must be
stronger, and when told "no, the bricks are the same in both
buildings", refuses to believe it. After all, the 'elemental
strength' must be greater in the round buildings bricks, mustn't it?<br>
<br>
><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">The problem is, everyone gets lost
in the minor details everyone disagrees on, and focuses on that</span><br>
<br>
Not at all. It's the bigger picture that we are disagreeing on. Not
the precise identity of specific qualia, but the very nature of
qualia in general.<br>
<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"></span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"></span><br>
And you still haven't said why you think my 'availability argument'
is invalid.<br>
<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"></span>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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