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On 03/02/2020 21:08, Brent Allsop wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.266.1580764127.13152.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org"><br>
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<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Hi Ben,</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin:0in
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style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
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</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">You
asked:</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">“</span><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,176,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Now
why
on earth would the experience of redness suddenly become
the experience of
greenness? </span><i
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,176,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">How</span></i><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,176,80);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> could
it?</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">”</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">By
simply inverting the red green signal
anywhere in the causal chain of events that is perception
as proven can be done
<a href="https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness/"
style="color:blue" moz-do-not-send="true">here</a> (skip
to the “Inverted
Perception” part).</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">It
remains a fact that you could engineer (using
just such inversions both upstream and downstream from
physical knowledge) one
robot to represent red knowledge with your redness, and
another robot to
represent red with your greenness. See “<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_spectrum"
style="color:blue" moz-do-not-send="true">Inverted
Qualia</a>”) They could both pick strawberries equally
well.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in
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</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">You
seem to be admitting that you only use one
word for all things “red”. That is the definition
of “Qualia Blindness”. In that world
there is an “<a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanatory_gap"
style="color:blue" moz-do-not-send="true">explanatory
gap</a>” because you need at least two words (red and
redness) to model simple effing of the
ineffable ideas like: “My redness is like your greenness,
both of which we call
red.” As long as we remain qualia blind, nobody can know
the true physical color of anything.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in
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0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">It's
not a "hard mind body problem" it's just a color problem.</span></p>
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</blockquote>
<br>
I think we're done here. I see no point talking to a broken record.
You keep referring to an incomprehenisble video with no explanation,
showing images that seem to be taken from a child's encyclopaedia
(that is NOT how our visual system actually works, it's just a vague
simplification that probably does more to obscure than reveal), with
some mysterious 'inversion' of what is assumed (wrongly) to be a
simple 'colour signal'. And you totally ignore any attempt to
actually progress the conversation, including very relevant
questions. Instead, you keep going back constantly to the same stock
(mostly meaningless, as far as I can see) phrases, using the same
nonsense terminology. I may as well be talking to a chatbot.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that you've just invented your own little world, with
almost no relation to reality, and are intent on repeating the same
packaged phrases over and over again, without making any attempt to
explain them or check them against what we actually know about how
our brains work.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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