<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 5:34 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>John, you have entirely missed the point.  I said the measurement would not tell you what consciousness is, but simply a way to measure it objectively.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">If you used EEG you'd certainly be measuring something objectively, but not something anyone would intuitively think had anything to do with<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>consciousness.</font><br><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>If the measurements do not correlate with what we think of with common sense as consciousness, then we choose another measurement. </i></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">I don't believe any objective measurement would work for consciousness unless you make an assumption of the very thing you were trying to prove.</font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">  <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Without that there is no hope of making consciousness a scientific entity.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">I agree, and that's why, unlike intelligence, c<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">onsciousness will never be a scientific entity.</span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"><br></font></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">John K Clark</font></span></div></div></div>