<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span id="gmail-docs-internal-guid-e2c1921e-7fff-b734-c83f-d1ac2ab7cdf9"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">John and Stathis,</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">you are conflating “computational binding” with mere communication.  If you want to communicate physical (or spiritual if you must) redness facts, you need a substrate independent communication channel for which the message can be instantiated on any particular causal physical representation between our two brains.  In order to be substrate independent, you always need a dictionary system to know the meaning intended by any particular physical representation.  For example, the retina, is the mechanical dictionary transducing system which interprets the red information in the light, to the red information in the physically different red signal in the optic nerve.  Ultimately, you need to interpret this abstract word like ‘red’, whatever happens to be representing it, as the real </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> “Stathis’ </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">‘behavior’</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">which, if it remains the same, the subjectivity remains the same.”  If you do all these interpretations correctly, you will have communicated the facts about </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“Stathis’ </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">‘behavior’</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">which, if it remains the same, the subjectivity remains the same.”</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“Computational binding” is what is done in a CPU.  You need to load a value into a register, representing the color of a point on the surface of the strawberry, and the value of a ‘ripe enough’ color in another register.  The computational binding is the difference operation done between these two representations in the CPU so you can have an abstract numerical resulting representation of if the target color is ripe enough or not.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Tononi’s Integrated Information Theory describes a quantitative way to measure consciousness, by how integrated things are.  This is measuring the amount of connections there are, between registers in a CPU, or the amount of computational binding.  But it is more than just integration, it is programming integration.  For example, difference operation integrations are different than multiplication integrations.  In a CPU, this programming is done via LOTS of discrete logic units.  Any one of which has very little integration, and once you have this difference value, for one pixel, that only gets you a tiny part of the way to the decision of whether you want to pick the strawberry or not.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“Stathis’ </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">‘behavior’</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">which, if it remains the same, the subjectivity remains the same.” being computationally bound is very different.  Not only can all of the pixels be computationally bound to all the other pixels, an extreme amount of computational meaning is programmed into the integration.  For each meaning full relationship, there must be some amount of programming, in the CPU, that is that meaning which we are aware of.  Everything from the computational meaning of having one (not two) strawberries in our hand, to how a strawberry of that particular color will taste, are all different programmed computational binding.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">So, if you consciously know something, there must be something physical (or spiritual if you must) that is in this CPU that is this knowledge, and this knowledge must be computationally bound to all the other knowledge which also must be in the CPU.  If you are seeing these words on the computer screen, if you are aware of them, there must be something in your CPU, which is each pixel of this </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“Stathis’ </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">‘behavior’</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">which, if it remains the same, the subjectivity remains the same.” which is bound to all the other pixels, along with all the other computational meaning.  That is what it means to be directly aware of this </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“Stathis’ </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">‘behavior’</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">which, if it remains the same, the subjectivity remains the same.”  There is no interpretation required because it is what it is, in a physical (or spiritual if you must) dependent way.</span></p><br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">John mentioned there are “300 million nerve fibers in the Corpus callosum”.  It is these that are enabling the </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“Stathis’ </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">‘behavior’</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">which, if it remains the same, the subjectivity remains the same.” to be sufficiently integrated to be computationally bound into one CPU that is our composite consciousness knowledge of the strawberry.  When I (and V.S.Ramachandran, in his </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“</span><a href="https://philpapers.org/rec/RAMTLO-8" style="text-decoration-line:none"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Three laws of qualia</span></a><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">” paper back in the 90s) are talking about a “</span><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/80yvzf/in_avatar_the_navi_dont_bind_their_prisoners_arms/" style="text-decoration-line:none"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Neural Ponytail</span></a><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">” we are talking about exactly this, which does not require interpretation, unlike mere communication.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></p><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The programming can be changed in a "Field programmable gate array" (FPGA).  We're more like a sleep programmed system running directly on the </span><span style="background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">“Stathis’ </span><span style="background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">‘behavior’</span><span style="background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span style="background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">which, if it remains the same, the subjectivity remains the same.”</span></p><br><br></span></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 5:45 AM John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 10:18 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>I'm having a hard time seeing all this as anything more than lots of hand waving, with an embedded "A miracle happens here".</i></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">If you demand a total explanation of ANYTHING, not just consciousness, then there always comes a point where you must say "a miracle happens here"  because an infinite chain of "why" questions is not a total explanation. But the simpler the miracle is the better the explanation, and that's why I like data processing, things don't get much simpler than on/off. And feel free to substitute "brute fact" for "miracle" if you like.</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Our left hemisphere knows absolutely, that it isn't the only conscious hemisphere in existence, because it is computationally bound to the other.</i></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">Yes the 2 hemispheres of our brains are normally computationally bound to each other by the 300 million nerve fibers in the Corpus callosum, which means that whatever one hemisphere knows the other one knows almost immediately, and with communication that good it's meaningless to speak of 2 seperate individuals in our head. And yes I'm familiar with Roger Sperry’s Split Brain Experiments, and they tell me that in a pathological brain in which that all important communication link, the Corpus callosum, has been severed the 2 hemispheres behave in ways very different from that of a healthy brain. And that is not at all surprising, if you start cutting transoceanic fiber optic cables the Internet would start behaving differently too. </font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div></div></div></div>
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