<div dir="ltr"><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">Now
your talking at the composite qualia level.
Of course composite qualia is going to be very unique for each
individual. Everything from memories, to
words, to names to specific training is going to effect composite conscious
experiences. But all of these types of composite
qualitative experiences can be broken down, and elemental parts isolated. This is especially true for color knowledge. For example, a bat may use redness (of course
bound to lots of other bat info which humans would not understand) making their
subjective knowledge of </span><span style="font-size:16px">echolocation</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span><span style="font-size:16px">information</span><span style="font-size:12pt">, at least at an elemental subjective level,
something like ours. There are some people
that have “synesthesia” for example.
They have elemental colorness qualities bound to letters of the
alphabet. Again, this could be the same
way a bat uses redness.</span></font></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">>> It still does not mean that qualia are
substrate specific</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Right,
but they are colorstrate or qualia specific.</span></p><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br></span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:21 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 06:11, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Hi Stathis,</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:24 AM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>But this does not imply that qualia are substrate specific.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That is why I used the term qualiastrate or colorstrate, because I knew you would object to "substrate". The fact of the matter is our knowledge has qualities or colors, and elemental redness in one brain is going to be like elemental redness in another brain, even if that other brain uses redness to represent green things in that other brain. I know a synasthist who's letters of the alphabet have elemental redness and grenness qualities, these would be the same color qualities of knowledge. I'm just assuming you guys will be OK with the idea that whatever these colors are, will eventually could be objectively observable and perfectly predictable (i.e. able to discover when someone is red/green qualia inverted). That is what I'm referring to when I talk about colorstrate or qualiastrate.</div><div><br></div><div>You, John, and everyone on this list continue to claim there is no way we could know what qualia were like in another brain.</div><div>But using this type of neural ponytail, where you provide something like the 300 million neurons, computationally binding 4 hemispheres the way the corpus callosum computationally bind 2 hemispheres. You would know what elemental subjective qualia could be like in another's brain, as sure as you know that "I think therefore I am" since you would be directly aware of the physics in another's brain (does not require interpretation) not just objectively observing them (requires interpretation). That's what it means to say you would experience all of the experience (or at least as much of the experience as your partner wanted to share), not just half, when you hugged your partner.</div><div><br></div><div>So why do you you or John or anyone continue to think that we can't know, given this #3 strongest form of effing the ineffable, along with the #1, week, and #2 stronger forms of effing the ineffable.?</div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It still does not mean that qualia are substrate specific if you could connect yourself to another person’s brain and see what they see. Because of our genetic similarities different people probably use similar structures for similar functions, but in theory they might use different ones. If you connected yourself to a different species, say a squid, it probably would not work at all but if it did, and you had novel experiences, I don’t think you would know what it is like to be a squid, or the squid what it is like to be a human. It would result in the experiences of a human-squid hybrid.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
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