<div><div dir="auto">Using your analogy, a fundamentalist atheist is one who doesn’t play chess AND doesn’t tolerate that others do. As a chess player, I have no issue with those who don’t play, but I have many issues with those who try to stop me from playing. Live and let live.</div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On 2020. Feb 26., Wed at 19:07, Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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On 26/02/2020 13:40, Giuilio wrote:<br>
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<div>Muslim and Supermuslim: Toward Islamic transhumanism?</div>
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<div>In a new book, philosopher of religion <a href="https://www.glos.ac.uk/academic-schools/education-and-humanities/staff-profiles/pages/s2108104-roy-jackson.aspx" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Roy Jackson</a> envisions a Muslim
Transhumanist Association...</div>
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<div><a href="https://turingchurch.net/muslim-and-supermuslim-toward-islamic-transhumanism-e2583dbdd759" target="_blank">https://turingchurch.net/muslim-and-supermuslim-toward-islamic-transhumanism-e2583dbdd759</a></div>
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"Jackson explains that the common black-and-white caricatures of
fundamentalist theocratic Muslims on the one hand, and
fundamentalist atheist transhumanists on the other hand, are not
representative"<br>
<br>
Er, what?<br>
<br>
I know what a fundamentalist Muslim is ("theocratic" is redundant
here), but what the hell is a 'fundamentalist atheist'?? Either all
atheists are 'fundamentalist', or none are, depending on how you
define the word 'fundamentalist'. In either case, the word serves no
purpose.<br>
<br>
Atheism isn't something you can have 'mild' and 'extreme' versions
of, which is what the above language implies. You either lack a
belief in gods or you don't. Anything else is a variety of religious
belief, which can be weak or strong (fundamentalist).<br>
<br>
Believing that there are no gods is not atheism, it's a belief
(obviously). I know that various religious apologists misrepresent
atheism as a negative belief, but they don't get to define what it
means, and anyone with half a brain can see straight through
propaganda like that.<br>
<br>
Imagine someone saying, in response to hearing that another person
doesn't play chess, "yeah, well I don't play chess EVEN MORE!!".
Apart from the obvious silliness, it wouldn't qualify them as a
'fundamentalist non-chess-player', would it?<br>
<br>
There are no negative numbers with belief, either your belief is
>0 or it's 0.<br>
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I'm no expert on Islam (I did try reading the manual once, but it
was so repellent that I couldn't stomach it), but my understanding
is that the word means 'submission' (I know that it's common to talk
about the nuances of translation causing a lot of confusion between
english and arabic, but I've never heard the word 'Islam' translated
as anything else. Anyone who knows different, please speak up).
Submission as in submission to divine will (as interpreted by the
clergy, of course).<br>
<br>
I know a bit more about transhumanism, and one of its core tenets is
self-determination. I have a hard time reconciling those two
concepts, and suspect that any attempt to do that would necessarily
change the meaning of either 'submission' or 'self-determination'. I
can't see any kind of transhumanism ditching the concept of
self-determination, but am not so sure if Islam can possibly ditch
the concept of submission to divine will (and if so, it would be a
bit like a vegetarian starting to eat meat, but still insist on
being called a vegetarian).<br>
<br>
I'd be interested to hear of any solution to this conundrum.</div><div><br>
<pre cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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