<div dir="ltr">Hi Stathis,<div><br><div><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">With
this it still appears that you are just mapping what I am saying, into your
model.  There is still no evidence that
you understand my model.  </span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">In your simpler
model, only the external behavior (picking the strawberries) matters.  But my model is more complex and includes additional
behavior you seem to ignore (are blind to?) like responses to: “What is red knowledge like for
you?”  In other words, parsing what I
say, into your model, it becomes a contradiction where I say both change in
qualia results in change in behavior AND the change in qualia doesn’t result in
change in behavior (as in the example of the three strawberry-picking robots</span>).</p>

<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>

<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">But correctly parsing what I say into my more complex
model, it means something different, and isn’t a contradiction.</span></p><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">And even if the 'hard problem' is a separate issue, no such "hard problem' exists in my more complex model, like it does in your simpler model.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p><p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 6:30 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 at 11:05, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Stathis,<div>So I still haven't convinced you I fully understand absolutely everything about your beliefs, model, and thinking.</div><div>OK, let me try again, yet again.</div><div><br></div><div>I know that all of today's computational systems are made of discrete components, where each component has inputs which result in outputs.</div><div>I know that any of these individual discrete components can be replaced with myriads of different physical instantiations, and that as long as all possible inputs map to the same output of that component, these sets of discrete systems must in all aspects, both internal and external, function the same, no matter what physics is used to implement them.  If any of the physical changes to any of these discrete components, which didn't change the mapping of the inputs to the outputs, changed the qualia, that would render the idea of qualia absurd or contradictory, hence there is a "hard problem".</div><div><br></div><div>So, did I miss anything?</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The last phrase, ‘hence there is a “hard problem”’, should not be included. The “hard problem” is quite a separate issue.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Now, can you describe to me any of the significant problems I see with any of that?</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I may have this wrong, and if so please forgive me, but you have said that the qualia affect behaviour so the behaviour would change if the qualia change, and also you have said that behaviour could be the same even though the qualia are different, as in the example of the three strawberry-picking robots. I don’t think these are valid objections.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
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