<div><div dir="auto">Right, the actions of atheist governments are political in nature. AND the actions of religious governments are also political in nature. In both case the problems are power and cruelty. Nothing to do with religious or philosophical convictions. I am not saying that one is good and the other is bad. I am saying that both are bad, but I insist on the symmetry.</div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 2:36 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">I repeat - the actions of atheist governments have nothing to do with their lack of belief in a god. The actions are political in nature. Plenty of religious people get left alone in China, in Russia. In China they are trying to beat the rebellions out of them, not their religion. In Russia they even let the people change the name from Leningrad back to St. Petersburg.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 2:20 AM Giulio Prisco via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">"Atheism has none of that. Religions give people reasons for being<br>
horrible to others. Atheism doesn't."<br>
<br>
Bullshit. In atheist regimes, people have been beaten, sent to gulags,<br>
and murdered, for peaceful behaviors like attending an underground<br>
church or wearing a cross. This is a FACT.<br>
<br>
Let's agree to disagree.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 10:52 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat<br>
<<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 4:08 AM Giulio Prisco via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I'm equating people who are violent, coercive, etc., and happen to be<br>
> atheists, with with people who are violent, coercive, etc., and happen<br>
> to be believers.<br>
><br>
> If you insist on adding "because of their religion" to the second<br>
> part, then I will insist on adding "because of their atheism" to the<br>
> first part, because I really don't see any difference between these<br>
> two totally symmetric cases.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Then you are refusing to see it. The difference is blindingly obvlous. Religions have rules of behaviour, whole tomes explaining what kind of behaviour, dress, food, sexual practices, rituals, etc., are required or allowed (and which ones are 'sinful' and to be discouraged, in oneself and in others), and often horrifically graphic descriptions of what punishments await those who break the rules.<br>
><br>
> Atheism has none of that. Religions give people reasons for being horrible to others. Atheism doesn't.<br>
> Nobody is violent, coercive, etc., because they are atheists, because there is a complete absence of those rules of behaviour, no prescriptions, no concept of 'sin' etc.<br>
><br>
> How can you possibly regard them as symmetric cases? They're as asymmetric as you can get!<br>
><br>
> Who will regard gay people as misguided, sinful and in need of correction, if not outright punishment?<br>
> Who will have reasons to do that? Where do those reasons come from?<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Ben Zaiboc<br>
><br>
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