<div dir="ltr">Well we've been talking about consciousness! Just getting cerebral again in general. This whole Searle clusterfuck was probably the most fun I ever had on the list and was a long period of great discussions. And I'm interested to see what people might have to add after a ten year break from the topic :3</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 12:15 AM Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">So what part of "this" do you think should come around once per decade?</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 11:46 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I think it's time for this again</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:49 PM Mike Dougherty <<a href="mailto:msd001@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">msd001@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Gordon Swobe <<a href="mailto:gts_2000@yahoo.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">gts_2000@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Sense data seems like the obvious place to look for that help: the man in the room has no access to sense data from the outside world, so perhaps that explains why he cannot attach meanings to the symbols he manipulates. But when we look at how computers get sense data, we see that sense data also amounts to nothing more than meaningless patterns of 1's and 0's.<br>
><br>
> At this point Stathis throws up his hands and proclaims that Searle preaches that human brains do something "magical". But that's not it at all. The CRA merely illustrates an ordinary mundane fact: that the human brain has no special place in the nature as a supposed "digital computer". The brain has the same ordinary non-digital status as other products of biological evolution, objects like livers and hearts and spleens and nuts and watermelons. It just happens to be one very smart melon.<br>
<br>
So your gripe is with the digital part of computers? Suppose analog<br>
computers had become the dominant technology, would you still be<br>
complaining that they can't be meaningfully intelligent because<br>
they're merely machines lacking the quintessence that makes human<br>
consciousness? (opening yourself to potshots about the requirement of<br>
a soul)<br>
<br>
Suppose I replicate the IO transformation of CR using a complex series<br>
of tubes and buckets filled by an eternally replenished aquifer?<br>
There's no digital zombie-ism to preclude intelligence, can can my<br>
Rube Goldberg water wheel be intelligent? Is it conscious?<br>
<br>
Have you ever seen the implementation of an adding machine using<br>
cellular automata? (Game of Life, etc.) It's an interesting setup<br>
because the CA rules have nothing at all to do with counting or the<br>
operation of addition - however the CA rules can still be exploited to<br>
do interesting and useful computation. Neurons may be bound by<br>
analogous rules as the CA cells, but we still somehow exploit the<br>
function of groups of neurons to convince ourselves that we're<br>
intelligent and conscious of that belief.<br>
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