<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Now we are getting down to details. Your point about IQ is well-founded. It is not a totally pure factor. I don't know about having one set of genes interfering with another set, but you could know.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Epigenetics will come first, I think. Finding out what genes do what enables us to use Crispr and turn them on or off (or replace them). A few conditions do come from just a few genes. I think cystic fibrosis is one that could be easily cured.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">We could control height with pituitary hormones now, right? Weight too. I don't know why we don't use levothyroxine to raise metabolism rates and get rid of fat. (My rate is out of the normal range and kept that way as a treatment for thyroid cancer. I have a few side effects,such as no appetite and dry skin, which pale in comparison to the problems obese people will have sooner or later.)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I certainly agree about choices. Parents will have to make them when choosing the genetics of their children. If those children decide (at what age do they get to?) differently and the genetic tools are available, then that's just what a libertarian would like best of all. But the parents have the first say perforce.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">We won't live to find out, but I have serious doubts that uploading will produce an entity indistinguishable from the biological person, or have the same experiences of life just by stimulating the uploaded person in some ways.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">IQ correlates with more things than anything else, even art talent, though that correlation is fairly low. A person with an IQ of 80 can learn to read music and with the proper dexterity can play in an orchestra - but not conduct nor write music well. There may be other things that come to mind which I would give everyone - long life genes? Not needed in an upload environment?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">bill w</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 4:10 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Ah, I see. I think. You're assuming this is about someone (parents)
making irrevocable choices for their children.<br>
<br>
If it was like that, sure, I'd agree, give the children the best
choices you're capable of making at the time, given your limited
knowledge.<br>
<br>
But I can't see it being like that. Once we know enough to reliably
and safely tinker with our own genomes, we'll know how to make
changes to adults as well as to embryos, or we will shortly after
that (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if adult genetic engineering
comes first). No genetic choice will be irrevocable. Someone
(staying in the realm of biology for now) whose parents decided to
make them tall could later decide that actually they want to be a
spelunker and be a lot shorter and lighter than they were.<br>
Yes, brain development would certainly be trickier, but that's
probably best left to post-uploading, apart from ensuring nothing is
going wrong with brain development. I may be wrong, though. There
may be ways to re-wire an adult biological brain.<br>
<br>
I'd throw cybernetic enhancements into the mix as well, and of
course uploading.<br>
<br>
The idea of giving everyone 'maximum IQs' seems a bit strange to me.
What does that mean? Person A has a really good ability to
manipulate 3D images in their head, person B can't do that for
toffee, but is excellent at algebra. Which one has the highest IQ?
It's quite likely that some mental abilities come at the cost of
some others. I've always been good with language, crap at maths. I
have a friend who is the exact opposite. Which of us is more
intelligent?<br>
<br>
Eliminating factors which would hinder brain development is one
thing, but I can't see how 'maximising IQ' can really mean anything,
as it's such a vague term that encompasses many factors, and some of
them will be at the cost of others.<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 25/03/2020 19:38, billw wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">What
justification can you come up with that results in people
having different IQs, given that we can give everyone the
maximum? Ditto for all health genes. How we we explain to a
person that we could have made them better but we didn't?
Tall people are favored in the job market. How could we
explain to a short person that we just gave them this
disadvantage?</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Sure, there are
plenty of factors that we can let go wild - parent's choice.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">bill w</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 8:02
AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> On 24/03/2020 21:32, billw wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><font style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" color="#888888"> I do think I would make everyone better
in the same way</font></blockquote>
<br>
I'm certain you'd get a <i>lot</i> of resistance to that!<br>
<br>
Apart from anything else, this smacks of coercion. But also,
it leads to a monoculture, which is always a bad idea.<br>
<br>
Better to provide people with as wide a variety of choices
as possible imo. Let them decide for themselves, let them
choose how far to go, including nowhere at all, and what
types of change to choose.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
</div>
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