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On 26/03/2020 19:08, Dave Sill wrote, then billw wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:mailman.22.1585249739.21400.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
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Ideally we'd want to move past playing by the rules of
biochemistry in order to do non-biological things.</span><span
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic
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don't know what that means. You want to do
non-biological things to a biological body? bill w</div>
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<br>
I don't know what Dave has in mind here, but to me, the long-term
thing will be moving past the distinction between 'biological' and
'artificial'.<br>
<br>
Consider that even an uploaded mind will need a physical substrate
of some sort to run on (one reason I've always objected to the term
'substrate-independent' - it implies somehow being independent of
any substrate, which is clearly nonsense, outside of Star-Trekkian
stories featuring beings of 'pure energy'). <br>
Many people seem to assume that this substrate will resemble our
current computers, and anyone who advocates for uploading must be
happy to have their mind be a software construct running on
something like the massive server farms we have today (which of
course implies all sorts of practical, legal and ethical
considerations that are actually quite scary, once you start
thinking about them).<br>
<br>
While that may be a short-term prospect, I doubt it will be how
things pan out in the longer-term.<br>
<br>
The way we are now, we create and live in elaborate virtual worlds
that are generated by our brains. We have no choice in the matter,
that's how things work. This doesn't mean that we don't inhabit
'real bodies', though.<br>
<br>
I see no necessary difference once we can upload (once the
technology is mature, anyway). One factor that many people assume
will be necessary for uploading is nanotechnology. Much better
nanotech than what we currently use the word for. Another factor
will necessarily be a much better understanding of biology. Biology
of the brain of course, but also of other aspects of our bodies
(even if only to provide acceptibly realistic - or tolerable -
simulations of embodiment).<br>
<br>
This is where the 'moving past the distinction' bit comes in. With
sufficient understanding and technical ability, we'll be able to
craft bodies for uploads to live in that are not 'computers' as we
know them today, and not biological bodies as we know them today,
but something new. Something that serves as a physical substrate for
the mind, and as a body to act in the world, Something that gives us
the best of both worlds, virtual and real. <br>
<br>
Just because someone's mind runs in a synthetic brain doesn't mean
they are inevitably stuck in a kind of limbo where nothing is
'real', where they can't experience smell or feel emotions, etc.,
etc. I expect that these kind of 'post-upload' people will not only
be able to experience the full range of mental states that we can
now, but a lot more. And most importantly, they will be able to
control their own selves, in many ways. They won't be subject to the
worst parts of being biological, or the worst parts of being a
'computer system'. No disease, ageing and decrepitude. No blue
screen of death. No 'Singularity ruined by lawyers'.<br>
<br>
The technology used to construct their bodies (and don't just
imagine 'Cmdr. Data' - type bodies, they could be anything you like)
would be advanced enough that trying to classify them as biological
or artificial would be hopelessly naive. At this point, even the
question 'Are you an upload?' would be difficult to answer in a
meaningful way. Even the phrase 'post-biological' might not be
strictly accurate.<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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