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On 01/04/2020 14:17, Keith Henson wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.4.1585747047.13517.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Ben Zaiboc <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ben@zaiboc.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><ben@zaiboc.net></a> wrote:
snip
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Ah, I see.
</pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">OK, that's not a problem with stories about uploads per se., it's a
</pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">problem with stories about anything more intelligent than the author (or
the readers). And it only holds true for uploads if you assume they will
inevitably be more intelligent (I'm not saying that's not a fair
assumption, just pointing it out).
There would seem to be little reason to upload if the process didn't
make you more intelligent.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The solution is simply to write about uploads that are not more
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">intelligent than you are.
That works if you are just interested in writing stories. It doesn't
work so well when you are trying to depict a post-singularity world.
All I could do in the story I wrote was to hint that the AI/uploads
who are assumed to be in control of the world had decided to stabilize
the human population. Why? Unknown, sentimental reasons perhaps.
snip
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Telling stories isn't an exercise
</pre>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">in trying to get things right, or predicting the future.
In most cases this is true. I, on the other hand, strive for
plausibility in the context of the early discussions on this list.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I'd be quite
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">happy to read good stories about uploads that are no more intelligent
than I am, and I think it would be a worthwhile effort, because it's a
way to familiarise readers with some concepts that they may otherwise
find bizarre and uncomfortable (and frightening) when they actually turn
up in real life.
That's Accelerando. Have you read it? Stross was a regular on this
last way back in the dark ages.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">That seems to me a very good reason for writing such stories, no matter
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">how unrealistic they might be in terms of the psychology and motivations
of real uploads. If you want to frighten people and foster resistance to
a new idea, keep it unfamiliar, unknowable and intrinsically different
to what they know. I suggest doing the opposite with the idea of
uploading. I'd rate the chances of successful acceptance far higher if
there was at least a segment of society (beyond geeks like us) who find
the idea of uploading exciting, full of possibilities, something to look
forward to (even if they think it's all a bit pie-in-the-sky) than if
the only exposure to the idea that most people had was from the luddites
and bioconservatives, etc.
We are a long way from marketing uploads. However, I suspect that it
will require being able to try reversible uploading.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I just wish I had some skill as an author, or I'd be doing it myself!
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">This is a bad topic to try to write about. It is hard to work in a
story arc. In fact, The Clinic Seed does not have much of a story
arc.
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<br>
<br>
"That works if you are just interested in writing stories. It
doesn't work so well when you are trying to depict a
post-singularity world".<br>
<br>
Indeed. I wouldn't even think of trying to depict a post-singularity
world. I maintain, though, that good stories that present uploading
in a positive light would be worth writing.<br>
<br>
"That's Accelerando. Have you read it? Stross was a regular on this
last way back in the dark ages."<br>
<br>
Absolutely. Several times (as well as 'Scratch Monkey', and
'Singularity Sky', and others, all of which I recommend:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://graycity.net/charles-stross/484615-scratch_monkey.html">https://graycity.net/charles-stross/484615-scratch_monkey.html</a>).<br>
<br>
It was the first real illustration to me of how giving things away
for free can actually generate a living for an author. I first read
it online, for free. Then, a while later, I read it from printouts
I'd made, at the cost of the printer paper. A while after that, I
bought the paperback on Amazon and read it a third time. Something
I'd probably never had done if it hadn't been available in full
online in the first place. If Charlie is still lurking here (I know
he used to), thanks to him for both things, the story and the
lesson.<br>
<br>
However, good as it was, I don't think it was so good at promoting
uploading. Not in the way I'm thinking about, anyway.<br>
<br>
<br>
"This is a bad topic to try to write about. It is hard to work in a
story arc".<br>
<br>
Damn, that sounds like a challenge to me.<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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