<div dir="ltr">+1 on all of Spike's points. The disconnect with gun owners and general contempt for a key part of the Constitution by John is somewhat surprising. The only rights you are guaranteed are secured by the end of a gun barrel. <div><br></div><div>I'd also expect most libertarian leaning types to be prepared to defend their family and homestead without waiting for police to arrive when it will be too late.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 12:23 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1428676177145136380WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 14, 2020 8:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] ccp struggles<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 9:44 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_-1428676177145136380gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">> </span></i></span><i>John, starting out a post with the comment “…Regardless of what the Constitution says…” is not a good way to develop credibility. </i><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Why the hell not?! <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Because the Constitution is the law of our land. When you repudiate the ConUS, you repudiate our legal system, which is why we need a militia.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_-1428676177145136380gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">> </span></i></span><i>Have you visited a gun shop and made some kind of survey in which you inquired regarding the customers’ gender and age?</i><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">>…No I have not…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">You should, John. It is educational. Visit the local firing range too. Talk and listen there.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div><div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_-1428676177145136380gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">> </span></i></span><i>The framers had just survived a bitter struggle against tyranny with only muzzle-loading flintlocks. </i><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">>…Then why does Joe Redneck need anything more…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">For protection against those who treat the militia with disrespect and contempt.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Note the second amendment doesn’t say what arms are necessary, only that a militia is necessary to the security of a free state. I live in a free state. I agree with the constitution. John do you agree with the constitution? If not, I agree with it enough for the both of us, with change left over.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">>… And you didn't answer my question, are there any limits or does the second amendment allow Walmart to sell H-Bombs?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">I don’t know that this has come to the Supreme Court, but I can imagine they would say it is the states’ call. As far as I know, Walmart has never had H-Bomb in its catalog. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">>…And you didn't answer my other question either, if the crackpot militias and a modern professional army are really on the same side then why on earth do we need the redneck's shotgun?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">We don’t need the redneck’s shotgun. If you wish to take up with the neck of color why she needs her shotgun, then do go right ahead. Good chance she will tell you it is to hunt ducks and protect her from people like you. Fortunately we don’t need to know why we need the neck of color’s shotgun.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">By the way John, how much free speech do you need? Do you need high capacity free speech? Or can the government put a legal limit on your words, and the type of words you use? I like my free speech and I do not wish for government people telling me how many words and which words I can use.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">>…The only well regulated militias in the US are the National Guard, the Navy Militia, and 23 state militias…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">You left out the unorganized militia, which is none of the above. You were part of the unorganized militia for 28 years: <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in;background:white"><span style="font-size:27pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">10 U.S. Code § 246.Militia: composition and classes<u></u><u></u></span></p><div style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:3pt solid rgb(243,86,93);padding:0in;background:white;margin-right:1.5pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.25in;background:white;border:none;padding:0in"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246#tab_default_1" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,104,172);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0in;background:white">U.S. Code</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:1.5pt;margin-left:0in;background:white"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246#tab_default_2" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,104,172);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0in">Notes</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">prev | <a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/247" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,104,172)">next</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:12pt;background:white"><a name="m_-1428676177145136380_a"></a><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">(a)</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:12pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in <a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/313" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,104,172)">section 313 of title 32</span></a>, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:12pt;background:white"><a name="m_-1428676177145136380_b"></a><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">(b)</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">The classes of the militia are—<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:24pt;background:white"><a name="m_-1428676177145136380_b_1"></a><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">(1)</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:24pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:24pt;background:white"><a name="m_-1428676177145136380_b_2"></a><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">(2)</span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:24pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">>… Most of the others are crackpots and are not regulated at all, the 2 largest are the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Keepers" target="_blank">Oath Keepers</a> and the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Percenters" target="_blank">Three Percenters</a>, neither one exactly gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, in fact I'd trust them about as far as I could comfortably spit out a rat…</span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">John K Clark<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16pt">No worries, John, you don’t give them a warm and fuzzy feeling either, and they don’t trust you as far as they could spit a rat. They exist to protect you and to protect themselves if you attack them. However, they are peaceful types. None of the murders in the worst hotspots are carried out by these organizations. If they were the problem, we would know.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16pt">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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