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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Ben Zaiboc<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ja of course. ...</span><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br>Sorry, Spike. This wasn't directed at you. Somehow I missed off Giulio's remark "Just happens *physically*", which was in response to me saying "just happens magically".<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Ben Zaiboc<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>No worries Ben, religion always requires inventiveness and imagination.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The problem is when a hardcore empiricist examines his own long-held religious convictions.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I had an experience that may be relevant, a commend made by the bride of my friend from Washington who lives near Mount Peak. She was well aware of my philosophical path. Her comment went along these lines:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>If atheism is right, then the things we do in this life are irrelevant for they all lead to the same place in a short enough time. Even if we think of our children and how to improve their world, that too is irrelevant for they too face the same short time in a meaningless existence with no real destiny, and so on with their children. The notion that all of our existence is all perfectly meaningless is not acceptable. Therefore, we assume there is a point to it all.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I chose to not contest the notion. She too seemed to be able to do something I am utterly unable to do: choose one’s belief. I am one who cannot choose what I believe, for if I could, I would never have rejected my comfortable religion to start with. I was happy there. It was very difficult for me when I began to realize it was all wrong, and I don’t feel as if I had the option to both believe and disbelieve at the same time.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></body></html>