<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div class="gmail-gs" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;width:682.485px;font-size:medium"><div class="gmail-" style=""><div id="gmail-:wv" class="gmail-ii gmail-gt gmail-adO" style="font-size:0.875rem;direction:ltr;margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div id="gmail-:ni" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><div dir="auto" style=""><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">A lot of people want to be part of something bigger than themselves. And it can be hard for people to understand that it is possible without God.SR Ballard</div><font color="#888888" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Churches et al have big meetings places often, as in the Catholic, beautiful architechture, beautiful music, and so on - perhaps a sip of wine. No other</font></font></div><div dir="auto" style=""><font color="#888888" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"> group that could give </font></font><span style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif">meaning to life has anything remotely similar. And who</span></div><div dir="auto" style=""><span style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif"> do you see recruiting to such secular groups? bill w</span><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif" style="color:rgb(243,243,243)">fffff</font><span style="color:rgb(243,243,243)">ffdchur</span></div></div></div><div class="gmail-hi" style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34);border-bottom-left-radius:1px;border-bottom-right-radius:1px;padding:0px;width:auto;background:rgb(242,242,242);margin:0px"></div></div></div><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 1:56 PM SR Ballard via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Well, I think some people need (psychologically) to have something external which gives their lives meaning. I find myself to be that kind of person, but it’s okay.<div><br></div><div>A lot of people want to be part of something bigger than themselves. And it can be hard for people to understand that it is possible without God.</div><div><br></div><div>SR Ballard<br><div dir="ltr"><br>On Apr 21, 2020, at 6:52 AM, Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
On 21/04/2020 01:01, Spike wrote:<br>
"I had an experience that may be relevant, a commend made by the
bride of my friend from Washington who lives near Mount Peak. She
was well aware of my philosophical path. Her comment went along
these lines:<br>
<br>
If atheism is right, then the things we do in this life are
irrelevant for they all lead to the same place in a short enough
time. Even if we think of our children and how to improve their
world, that too is irrelevant for they too face the same short time
in a meaningless existence with no real destiny, and so on with
their children. The notion that all of our existence is all
perfectly meaningless is not acceptable. Therefore, we assume there
is a point to it all."<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I would take issue with the idea that atheism can be right or wrong.
It's not asserting anything, it's just a lack of belief. It may lead
to assertions which may be right or wrong, but I don't think it can
be right or wrong in itself.<br>
<br>
Apart from that, the statement "then the things we do in this life
are irrelevant" is a bit of a stretch (actually I really object to
it, see below). I remember when I was young, and my dad was keen to
show me the stars, and get me to understand just how damned many of
them are up there. We had a pair of powerful binoculars, and I saw a
mind-boggling number of stars. And I knew that what I was seeing was
just the teeniest tiniest fraction of what was actually there. That
was a really humbling experience, and made me think just how utterly
insignificant, tiny and fleeting everything we are and know is. The
funny thing is, I didn't find this at all depressing. I found it
enormously liberating, and felt kind of buoyed up by it. I really
think I discovered the meaning of life at that moment (<i>My</i>
meaning of life, I should say): "You Decide". That was a real
revelation to me, and I still feel exhilarated and even uplifted by
it now, decades later. Such a contrast to the dreary oppression of
christianity and its bedfellows!<br>
<br>
That's my answer if anyone ever asks me what the meaning of life is.
You Decide. It works on a couple of levels, and it reinforced my
atheism which was developing around that time (I was reading a great
big fancy old leather-and-brass-bound bible, which was an enormous
help. I thoroughly recommend actually reading the bible (and the
koran, etc.), for anyone who has a tendency to think there might be
more to all this than a bunch of people making things up).<br>
<br>
The reason I find the 'things we do are irrelevant' remark
objectionable is that it assumes that if there are gods, the things
we do are not irrelevant and meaningless, but if there aren't, they
are. Why should that be? Even if gods exist, they are just another
kind of being. What makes our actions meaningful if they exist, but
not if they don't? It sounds kind of stupid when you think about it.<br>
<br>
There's only one person who has the right to decide if my life, my
decisions and actions and thoughts, are meaningful or not. And it's
not some beardy insecure bully who lives in the sky (even if such a
being really does exist). I long ago decided that if this
much-touted god turns out to be real, it doesn't deserve even my
respect, much less 'worship'. In fact, it needs a bloody good
talking-to, at the very least.<br>
<br>
"Therefore, we assume there is a point to it all". What point would
that be? Just think about it.<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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