<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">If we think of atheism as a religion, and I don't, then we can think of what religion offers - here is a start:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><div class="gmail_default">rapture - feeling of oneness with the universe and god- nirvana - peak experiences accompanied by speaking in tongues - feeling of lost identity </div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">forgiveness of sins - purification into a better person perhaps through suffering and flagellation and fasting - being forgiven by an agency of the church and thus a god (Jesus loves me)</div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">merging identity with fellow believers - being a part of a whole - loved and loving in return<br></div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">more to come - what do you think atheism offers comparable to those things above?</div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">bill w</div><div class="gmail_default"></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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On 23/04/2020 18:36, bill w wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">to
wonder how evolution shaped humans to believe in gods.</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Keith</span><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="comic sans ms,
sans-serif"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="comic sans ms,
sans-serif">That's my question. Perhaps there is some
cognitive function that we absolutely need to function
properly that has the consequence, or side effect, or
extension, of believing in things without data or reason.</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Speculation
invited.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I always thought that religion was the result of our desire to
understand how the world works, but kind of gone wrong. I remember
writing a little story a long time ago called "The Heavy Breathing
Sea Slapper" or something similar, which was about how people
managed to come up with the idea of a crazy invisible being, on the
basis of their observations of the weather, and a desire to <i>explain</i>
things, at any cost.<br>
<br>
Another factor is probably our tendency to attribute agency to
things, even when it's not appropriate. Kids do this all the time to
inanimate objects. Something only needs to have a suggestion of big
eyes, and it becomes a friend.<br>
<br>
There might be a good evolutionary explanation, in the idea that
it's better to assume that the rustling in the bushes is a lion, and
run away, than to assume it's just the wind, and ignore it. So
everything that moves becomes associated with something with
(usually malicious) intent.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that religions started off as just our own curiosity
and drive to understand (with maybe a bit of fear and drive to
survive, as well), then somehow turned sour. In that view, science
and religion have the same roots, just very different outcomes.<br>
<br>
The real puzzle, to me, is not how religion came to be, but how it
persists. There are signs that it might not, in the long term, but
that might just be wishful thinking.<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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