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On 23/04/2020 22:58, bill w wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.16.1587679099.2298.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">If we think of
atheism as a religion, and I don't, then we can think of what
religion offers - here is a start:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans
ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">
<div class="gmail_default">rapture - feeling of oneness with the
universe and god- nirvana - peak experiences accompanied by
speaking in tongues - feeling of lost identity </div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">forgiveness of sins - purification
into a better person perhaps through suffering and
flagellation and fasting - being forgiven by an agency of the
church and thus a god (Jesus loves me)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">merging identity with fellow
believers - being a part of a whole - loved and loving in
return<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">more to come - what do you think
atheism offers comparable to those things above?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
The 'forgiveness of sins' assumes that 'sin' actually means anything
real, and to atheists, I should think it doesn't, seeing as how the
term relates to the concept of a god. If you don't believe in gods,
you don't think 'sin' is a meaningful term.<br>
<br>
The other things for the most part still seem irrelevant and
possibly delusional, but for me, all those things mentioned aren't
anything positive at all, so I don't need or want anything to
replace them, and there's no need for atheism to offer anything like
them. With perhaps two exceptions. The 'oneness with the universe'
thing, and love. I am one with the universe, that's just a simple
fact, no need for anything mystical or special about it. It
certainly doesn't involve a feeling of lost identity. I have no idea
why anyone would want that!<br>
<br>
You can love and be loved without merging identity. Again, nothing
special about it, just part of human nature.<br>
<br>
So, I see no need for atheism to compete with religion for
delusional fantasies. That's what we're trying to rise above.<br>
<br>
Becoming a better person, though, well, that's transhumanism. Except
it won't be achieved through daft things like suffering and
flagellation, but through technology. And probably the definition of
'better' is going to be different. It definitely doesn't mean
becoming more of an abject slave, which is what most religions seem
to mean by the term.<br>
<br>
Bottom line, atheism doesn't offer anything comparable to those
things mentioned. It offers far better things, especially when
coupled with transhumanism.<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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