<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">At the other end of the spectrum well inside the very stupid area you <span class="gmail_default">have </span>Christian </font></span><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">young earth creationists who make it no secret that regardless of how much scientific evidence is brought against it in the future they <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">will</span> continue to believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis because it was written by God and thus is the ultimate truth<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">. John</span></font><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="">In my estimation, members of our group are in the top 1%, 5%, or something and would not be described as 'needy' by anyone in their right mind. But see what John wrote: many people are desperate for an authority to follow, no matter what. Very needy people that we cannot relate to very much, if at all. </span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style=""><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="">So I ask: is religion playing a good role in their lives, or a bad one? Bad might mean that they deny reality in other areas of their lives, are way too credulous ($ to Nigeria maybe?), and so on.</span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style=""><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="">Opiates of the people - necessary?</span></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="4" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="">bill w</span></font></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 9:46 AM John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:31 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">><i> </i></span><i>In my view, both religion and science are about believing.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">Yes but a scientist's core beliefs are much more compact than his religious counterpart, namely "some things work and some things don't, and the ones that work are worth spending more of your time on than the ones that don't, so learn the difference with observation and experiment". <br> </font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div></blockquote><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Again, this is highly dependent on the particular religion.<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> [...] </span>Take these words, from the son of the founder of the Bahai Faith:<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>"If religion were contrary to logical reason then it would cease to be a religion and be merely a tradition<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">"</span>.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">Taoism and Buddhism in the form originally taught by Buda (before his followers turned him into a God after his death) are not really religions at all because they say nothing about God and make very modest claims about knowing the true nature of reality and leave that to science, rather they are states of mind that they think, perhaps with some justification, will make people happy. All true religions are stupid, but some are stupider than others and Baha'i is in the less stupid end of the spectrum, but no religion can harmonize a belief in a omnipotent benevolent God with Darwinian Evolution.</font><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">At the other end of the spectrum well inside the very stupid area you <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">have </span>Christian </font></span><font size="4">young earth creationists who make it no secret that regardless of how much scientific evidence is brought against it in the future they <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">will</span> continue to believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis because it was written by God and thus is the ultimate truth<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span></font></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><i>Interesting thought: Is Sagan's definition of science itself a static belief? How could it ever change?</i></div></div></div></blockquote><br><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span><font size="4">Basically all science says is keep following an idea to see where it leads until it stops working and then abandon it and find a better idea; but you wouldn't want to abandon science as long as it's working, and if the scientific method stops working the only way you would know its not working is by following the scientific method, although you're going to have one hell of a time finding something better.<br><br>John K Clark</font></div></div></div>
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