<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">So then, 'everybody has a house' is equivalent to 'nobody has a house'. ?? bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 4:47 AM John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 4:46 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>In my opinion, I define the soul and the mind differently, and I am not sure if they are the same.<br>The mind: we all know what this means, I think. An organized, conscious thing.</i></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">And you thought that with your mind.</font></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><i>> </i></span><i>The soul: this one is tougher. Let me see if I can devise some 'axioms of the soul':</i></div></div><div><i>1. Presence: It must exist</i></div><div><i>1 --> 2. Permanence: It must exist for non-trivial periods of time</i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">The same is true for mind, and for anything of practical importance.</font></div></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>3. Integration: Its parts must be part of a clearly defined system with boundaries. </i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">That is also true for mind, and mind is what a brain does, so the amount of integration is determined by the number of connections between the parts of the brain and the amount of time it takes for a signal to travel from one part of the brain to another. And that's where this "we're all part of one mind" stuff falls apart.</font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>2 + 3 --> 4. Closeness: given a permanence period A to B, the probability that the parts of the system are integrated in the same manner at B as they were at A must be much higher than the probability that they are integrated with foreign parts at B.</i></div></div></blockquote><br><font size="4">I think you're saying distan<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">t</span> parts must have less influence than nearby parts, but that is not always true for computers or for biological brains. Sometimes the information a part needs to complete a calculation is on the other side of the brain; this slows things down but can't always be avoided because you can't always predict what information you'll need to complete a calculation before you've finished the calculation<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span></font><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><i>By this definition, an atom is a soul. </i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">Then it's a bad definition. Meaning needs contrast, everything having a soul is equivalent to nothing having a soul.</font></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>If telekinesis exists <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">...</span></i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">it would have been proven to everybody's satisfaction centuries if not millennia ago.</font> </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">John K Clark</font></div></div></div>
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