<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:18.6667px">The pandemic was not a failing of any politician or political philosophy other than China, spike</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:18.6667px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:18.6667px"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Just one nit: The White House knew of the virus in January if I recall correctly, while millions of masks, ventilators and other equipment were sold to China. Hard to say who to blame, but clearly the White House is to blame. No?</font></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:18.6667px"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:18.6667px"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">bill w</font></span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:51 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Even India and Haiti do it better<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 10:45 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14pt">> </span></span><i><span style="font-size:14pt">It feels like you are trying to leverage a crisis into an opportunity.</span></i><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…I know it's not politically correct to say but I think if somebody can profit from a tragedy, or turn a crisis into a opportunity, or turn a lemon into lemonade, or in general find a way to extract a little good from something very bad then that would be nothing to be ashamed of…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">If a tragedy is used to seize political power, that isn’t turning a tragedy to an opportunity, it is turning it into a greater tragedy. It causes increased distrust. John it worked in this case: people who read your posts don’t trust your judgement or your cause. Some of us think it is an elaborate false flag attack rather than the totalitarian manifesto it appears to be.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Plenty of us know what really happened here: this virus jumped from bats to humans in Wuhan, China attempted to contain it while covering it up, foreign nationals became infected, it got loose, spread across the globe, governments were ineffective in stopping it, regardless of what they did or didn’t do, hundreds of thousands have died and many more will. This is not an opportunity to profit, it is a tragedy.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Any political leader who uses this tragedy as an opportunity to seize power is never to be trusted. Vote em out.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>… in fact I'd say it would be a very Extropian thing to do, at least in Max's original meaning of the word…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">I very much disagree. Using the Covid pandemic to promote any political view is deplorable, even libertarianism, which is why I haven’t gone there. Libertarianism, where it exists, didn’t stop this, no brand of political thought seems to have made much difference in the long run. The virus doesn’t know or care what political party is in charge.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">><span class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092gmaildefault">> </span>…to be reminded of the grim reality that an American dies of this virus about every 49 seconds, but with all Trump's grandiose talk…<u></u><u></u></span></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"> <span class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092gmaildefault"><i>> </i></span><i>The Federal government doesn’t have the final say on that. </i><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…If sure doesn't as long as Trump is running the show…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Doubling down will not help. The pandemic was not a failing of any politician or political philosophy other than China, but it certainly pointed out some really obvious vulnerabilities not connected directly to politics: we have built cities that are inherently vulnerable to this sort of thing. We don’t even know what other vulnerabilities have quietly evolved, but I suspect we have more of them. Persistently running a federal-level deficit creates a situation where the Federal government cannot respond effectively in an actual emergency. Deficits and borrowing are for emergencies, not for standard operations.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>… when something bad happens he will claim that's not his department and blame governors or mayors or China…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Not governors, not mayors, not his department, YES CHINA! Yes China damn sure is to blame, you bet your ass they are at fault here, grievously so. China kept this quiet, hoping to contain it, which put the entire planet at risk. They influenced the World Health Organization to assure governments all over Europe to keep their borders open too long. China is to blame for that. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">No government has been able to contain this outbreak, not one. Some delayed it a little, but none stopped it. China externalized risk to the entire planet, and we are all paying the devastating price. Economies everywhere will be crushed, regardless of what form of government they have, every country, everywhere.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">The virus was late getting to Africa, but the overall crushing impact will likely be worse there: they have fewer resources with which to resist. The total death toll may get dramatically worse. Those nations with 2 and 3 day doubling times are mostly in Africa. Oh mercy.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">><span class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092gmaildefault">> </span> <i>I don’t see you posting curses on Xi Jinping. Why is that?</i><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…Because my Chinese paymasters wouldn't like it obviously…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">If we could be absolutely sure you don’t have actual Chinese paymasters, we would take that as satire. China did this to us, specifically President Xi, and John you posted comments defending Xi as late as March 17. He was the one who issued orders to keep it quiet, then threatened anyone who would warn the world in time to do something useful. Oh shameful was that deplorable act. Xi is to blame more than anyone anywhere at any time. His decisions and catastrophic actions have killed hundreds of thousands and devastated economies everywhere.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:14pt">>> </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:14pt">Trump doesn’t make the call on that. </span></i><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…Trump very strongly disagrees:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14pt"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3QXrQDTDYo" target="_blank">When somebody is president of the United States, the authority is total</a></span></span><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">If anything good comes of all this tragedy, it educates politicians that their power is limited, intentionally so. POTUS has been schooled on that, now governors have been reminded of that, and so on, all the way down. They can issue their orders, but at some point we, the people will do what we need to do in order to save our businesses and livelihood.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">The USA is a nation which was born in rebellion against tyranny. It is in our national DNA, it is in our constitution, it is the reason we are a special case country. We intentionally limit government power, for a reason: power corrupts.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_3761988913507952092gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:14pt">> </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:14pt">May you escape all illness John.</span></i><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…And you too Spike. John K Clark<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">May we all. Let’s hope this data from China is accurate (I don’t believe it is (but I am hoping so with every fiber of my being.)) If it is true, in a couple of months we can expect the pandemic to tail off to nothing.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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