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On 23/05/2020 14:38, Re Rose wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.8.1590241089.23343.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">Magical
thinking is NOT involved in my descriptions. I think it is magical
thinking to imagine that your consciousness will leap over into
another, separate agent that has a copy of your neural data. No
one yet has said <i>how</i> that will happen, even though I have
asked that question a grillion, maybe even a brillion times to
this list. That's a lot of times.</blockquote>
<br>
This is a straw-man argument. Nobody thinks that your consciousness
'leaps over' into a separate agent, any more than Beethovens 9th
'leaps over' into a new CD recording of it. The point is that the
separate agent is already your consciousness, by means of being the
<i>same information</i>. You might be asking a made-up numerical
quantity of times meant to convey 'a lot', how it will happen, but
you are ignoring the answer.<br>
<br>
When you say:<br>
"I believe making a copy is not possible, and that a "good enough"
copy is not "good enough" if your consciousness cannot access it."<br>
<br>
You are missing the point entirely. What do you think a
consciousness is, if not the information that is being duplicated?
Your language implies that someone's consciousness, their mind, is a
separate thing from the duplicated information. This is not the
idea. It's like saying that the digital marks on a CD are not the
music, and that the music has to 'access' the marks after they have
been made.<br>
<br>
"... within non-linear systems that have multiple possible
equilibria but are in a specific equilibria. These become
de-entrained (exactly as they do during aging process, but farther
away from equilibria) and without initial boundary conditions it
will not be possible for them to become re-entrained in the same
equilibria. That essential information is not copiable, and cannot
be retrieved."<br>
<br>
You'll have to give some specific examples of what you mean by this,
or I can't make any sense of it.<br>
<br>
It seems you disagree when I said we'd already discussed, and
disposed of, the 'information in the body' issue as being either
totally irrelevant or easily solvable. So let's revisit that, and
decide whether specific and exact individual somatic information is
important for an upload or not.<br>
<br>
<br>
And I'd really like to know your answer to the 'amoeba' question. If
someone's complete body and brain were duplicated in exactly the
same way that an amoeba duplicates itself, who do you think the two
resulting people would be? Two completely new people, or two
versions of the same person? Has the original person died? Or is
there some other interpretation?<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
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