<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">re Oakland and no reason to go there: "There's no there there." Gertrude Stein.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 12:48 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_5818667277504230257WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Summer weather and COVID-19<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 7:59 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_5818667277504230257gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14pt">> </span></span><i><span style="font-size:14pt">That’s why we don’t have one here. </span></i><span style="font-size:14pt">Aren’t you glad we have a constitution? We are too.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…And that's why in the entire history of the world no country with a constitution has ever slipped into dictatorship...oh waite ...<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Not just any constitution will do. It must be one with a Bill of Rights. Aren’t you glad we have a Bill of Rights? We are too. The founders insisted on it. So do we.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_5818667277504230257gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14pt">> </span></span><i><span style="font-size:14pt">I don’t see that it matters which party is in charge of tightening the belt: either way it has to happen.</span></i><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…Yeah yeah because otherwise deficit spending will destroy the economy, the same song and dance I've been hearing all my life and all my father's life too, and it's starting to get a little old…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">If runaway deficits will never hurt us, have you ever figured out why we are paying taxes at all? If so, do share please.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">I have a theory: deficit spending will hurt us, and already is hurting us. We have far less capacity to deal with the revenue drop in an emergency, such as a pandemic.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_5818667277504230257gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14pt">> </span></span><i><span style="font-size:14pt">Authority is intentionally limited in the US. </span></i><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…It's very odd, the way you keep repeating that over and over like a mantra it's almost as if you think it's important…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">It is important. It is why we have never had a dictator. Can you think of any other explanation? Do share please.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_5818667277504230257gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:14pt">> </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:14pt">Regardless of government orders, businesses and shops will open anyway, and are already opening, such as Musk’s local car factory. </span></i><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…Speaking of Elon Musk, he predicted on March 19 that there would be “<i>close to zero new cases</i>” in the U.S. “<i>by end of April</i>". Yesterday was May 22 and there were 24,197 new cases in the U.S…John K Clark<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">The new cases are not in Fremont CA. The car factory was closed by the county of Alameda, which is still getting about 50-80 new cases a day. But most (nearly all) of these of these are in Berkeley and Oakland, up that way. We know that the Berkeley crowd packs em in like teenagers in the back seat of a VW, and Oakland, well... let’s not go there. I jump at every opportunity to not go to Oakland: too dangerous.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">But Musk doesn’t do that in his factory. If you take a tour (I highly recommend even if only a virtual tour: </span><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr9kK0_7x08" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr9kK0_7x08</a><span style="font-size:14pt"> ) you see that the factory is far less crowded than a typical WalMart during 0600 Tuesday morning Geezer Hour. The city of Oakland should not be dictating to Fremont, with fundamentally different conditions. Shutdown rules should be made at the city level.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">John your observation is exactly the problem: generalizing to the entire country a problem concentrated in the mega metropolitan areas, problems they have brought on themselves by continuing to build skyward with those absurd population densities. Fremont isn’t that way: there you find clean, extended suburbs where people are taking the appropriate precautions, where the virus isn’t a big threat. But a general shutdown is a big threat: a lot bigger than the virus. I live near Fremont: 26 cases, no fatalities. Some local businesses never did close. The local constables did not intervene.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Are you still getting your paychecks during the shutdown? Factory workers do not, which is why they went to work in defiance of Alameda county health department’s orders. Factory workers and shop owners need their paychecks and sales: small business employees need their paychecks. Try to see it from their perspective.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">Here’s a modest proposal: if you are one who is still getting your paychecks, argue for ending the shutdown. If you are one whose paychecks came to an end with the shutdown, argue for continuing the shutdown. Then both will have greater credibility. My paychecks are still coming, and I think it is time to end the shutdown, forthwith. It is now doing more harm than good, in my view. Let the metro areas continue doing as they see fit of course (New York must stay shut down for now (my condolences to those who inhabit those overcrowded places (but you don’t need to live there (lotsa open space out here (don’t worry, you won’t turn into an ignorant redneck if you move out of there and come here (well, not right away (your children might (heh, just kidding (sorta.)))))))<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">John I will freely offer you a congratulations of sorts. You managed to state your case without any overt political content. As soon as the name of any politician or party comes into a post, we recognize the true intent: it is a pointless campaign. Your latest post didn’t have it. Well done indeed. Do strive to make all your posts focus on the problem rather than promoting a particular political view. People are more likely to consider your arguments.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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