<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">If my memory is serving me well (not likely) it has been estimated that only about 25% of what is said is adequately communicated. Part of that, I suppose, is that you have to count both errors: errors in what is said, and errors in what is understood by the receiver. It gets even worse, I think, when you consider class reunions: the communicator doesn't remember an event well and then states it poorly, and the receiver has different memories of the event and then garbles what he hears. bill</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 8:56 AM Ben via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
On 24/05/2020 23:04, bill w wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">But
it's not correct to say that dynamic processes can't be
represented by static data</span><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face="comic sans ms,
sans-serif">I never said that. I agree with you.</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Ah, ok. I misunderstood.<br>
<br>
After this:<br>
-------------------<br>
<cite><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">What
do you think a consciousness is, if not the information that is
being duplicated? Your language implies that someone's
consciousness, their mind, is a separate thing from the
duplicated information. ben</span></cite><cite><br>
</cite>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Well,
that's what I think. I think that consciousness is a dynamic
process, which can show up on an EEG, whereas stored
information is a static process (it used to be thought that a
memory was a circuit continually running and if it stopped
running the memory was lost). Consciousness is the part that
accesses the static elements if desired (pulling long term
memory into short term memory), along with processing sensory
information. I also would not call consciousness the mind,
since most of the mind is unconscious (and static unless called
on (?), like accessing the definition of a word). bill w<br>
----------------------<br>
<br>
I thought you were saying that a mind was a separate thing from
the information, so that reproducing </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">information
alone is not enough to reproduce a mind</span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">.
But you're saying that a running mind is different from a stored
mind, which nobody can argue with. I suppose they're two sides
of the same coin. Matter/energy encoding information statically,
and information orchestrating the dynamic flow of matter/energy.<br>
<br>
Natural language is a crude thing, and often not really suitable
for conveying these sorts of things. I reckon a huge amount of
time must get wasted because of miscommunication. <br>
</span></div>
<pre cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
</div>
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