<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Im sorry Bill but—<div><br></div><div>><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The reason for 'them' and 'they' is that they are different from me in ways that are significant to me. Morally.</span></div><div><br></div><div>All black people are significantly morally different than yourself? How do you arrive at that conclusion?</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default"><font color="#000000"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">>Theirs is a different culture. And I don't want to be considered any part of it. </span></font></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>It’s not as if “black culture” is a monolith any more than “white culture” is. I am 100% sure than my cultural background is different than yours, and not due to any differences in pigmentation that might (or might not) exist between us.</div><div><br></div><div>If you are not a black person, I doubt people will accuse you of being part of “black culture”. </div><div><br></div><div>><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I am not a part of the relativism movement in moral philosophy.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Moral relativism is not inherently a part of “black culture”. What it is part of is contemporary western culture broadly. It seems that decline in cultural religiosity is at least weakly correlated with increased moral relativism. </span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I am generally a moral relativist, and fail to appreciate it’s vileness. Morally everything is relative, despite any objection or disgust I have toward it (or conversely my desire or praise for it). Who sets such moral determinations outside of religion? </span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">However, despite that, some things are helpful to a certain ends and some are detrimental, some things prop up society and some destroy it. When I make a moral judgement I base it on those things, personally, but I understand and accept that others use different moral frameworks and tend not to be bothered by them. </span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">There are exceptions, obviously, but speaking generally.</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">My views on moral relativism are probably heavily colored by my cultural upbringing. I am a TCK, and my family is a carnival family. Moral absolutism and moral idealism don’t adequately function my anecdotal experience. </span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">SR Ballard</span></div><div><br><div dir="ltr"><br>On Jun 15, 2020, at 3:32 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">The reason for 'them' and 'they' is that they are different from me in ways that are significant to me. Morally. Theirs is a different culture. And I don't want to be considered any part of it. I am not a part of the relativism movement in moral philosophy.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">It is a point that several black professors of national standing have made and said that blacks need to correct if they want to be regarded as equals. If you do not know what I am talking about, you are quite ignorant and you might want to fix that.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Another thing you might want to fix is preaching to me. I suggest you pick another person if you want to try to 'correct' their moral thinking.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">I will, as always, continue to disregard their color and treat them as I will anyone else.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">This is the end of my part of this thread.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:16 PM Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:28 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif">The only black people I have ever known in any capacity have been low class people - laborers on the farm or at the railroad station and so on, most of them illiterate. I cannot speak for blacks of higher classes, but from my limited experience I can attest that for kindness of heart they are at least our equals. bill w</span><br></p></div></div><br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>i was already "smh" and about to just brush the whole thread off... but that falls under the idea of silence equals acceptance.</div><div><br></div><div>the first problem is seeing "blacks" as "they" - you need to fix that kind of thinking. And if you don't like my use of singular you, then how about "we" as in "we need to fix that kind of thinking" I propose that you have the discipline to replace all future expression of "blacks" as "black people" so you are constantly reminded that color is an adjective and not a noun. The common thing between "black people" and "white people" is that we're all "people". It should be a simple enough change that it might even be possible. We should at least TRY. </div><div><br></div><div>If you are going to say something about "black people" that would also be true of "white people" then you shouldn't even mention color. "I cannot speak for [unnecessary qualifier] people of higher classes..." because the point you might be making is about classism or economic privilege, and in that case there is no need to confuse the point with racist-sounding rhetoric.</div><div><br></div><div>If you were to make the point that you don't know any "black people" from higher classes than those laborers, then I will conclude that you either live in a place that is remote/sheltered or very privileged to have maintained isolation from an entire demographic of people. That's not in itself wrong; but it's a bias that you should be able to check at the door. After that, you're then admitting that there might be a systemic imbalance in the opportunity afforded to a subset of the population such that you've lived a life of uneven distribution and equal access. </div><div><br></div><div>I think the reform that #BLM is looking for, needs to start in the ideas that separate as well as unify. I think #BLM has too much momentum to redefine their message at this point, but as far as memes go I think #BLM will unravel and fly apart before it achieves a self-sustaining change. Maybe that will create enough space for the next seed to grow to maturity. I can't see that far ahead.</div></div></div>
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