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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 30, 2020 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Cc:</b> John Clark <johnkclark@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] The Japanese mystery: why so few COVID cases?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 3:55 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span class=gmaildefault><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> </span></i></span><i>It really surprises me this is so controversial. </i><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>It does?!!</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> </span></span>We already know how to take blood from a patient, do something to it (such as dialysis) then put it back in. Seems like we could even modify an existing dialysis machine with something as simple as a UV source around a glass tube somewhere within. Then we get to see if the covid dialysis patients recover better on those machines retrofitted with UV recover better than those whose machines do not have that retrofit. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>For goodness sake </span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>S</span></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>pike</span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>,</span></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> if the UV light is intense enough to kill a virus it's more than intense enough to scramble the genetic code</span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> inside human blood cells that, unlike skin cells, never evolved pigment to protect them from UV because they were never exposed to them before.</span></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> To put it more simply</span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>,</span></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> doing what you suggest would be carcinogenic</span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>. Killing the COVID-19 virus is super easy and so is killing cancer cells, the hard part is to kill them without also killing or mutating human cells.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>John K Clark<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>OK so here we go, no worries (or rather low worries): red blood cells have no nucleus, so DNA damage doesn’t apply to them. Leucocytes are produced in bone marrow, so those are renewable. Lymphocytes cannot divide enough times such that a weird DNA damaging UV dose would matter. In any case, granulocytes, monocytes and lymphocytes depend on bone marrow to renew their numbers. So we UV the covid at a low enough dose to destroy them, let their wrecked remains trigger the immune response in the remaining intact system.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>In any case, that approach sounds promising to me. The bone marrow will not know or care if there are DNA damaged white blood cells floating around in there. In blood recipients there are already leucocytes from someone else, but that doesn’t cause cancer as far as I know.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Considering we perform those Hail Mary plays with the respirators, I would think it would be worth the risk to try to UV irradiate blood in dialysis patients, and it doesn’t really cost them anything: they already hafta come in there a coupla times a week anyway. Low risk, low cost, high potential payoff if it works. Then if it does work, we already know what to do for the non-dialysis covid patients.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>That scenario isn’t a no-worries, but rather a low-worries, lower than the danger of covid, and it might work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>