<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div>I think Spike sent this:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="WordSection1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">You mention racial data in Wyoming. Why is that relevant please? Wyoming is one of the smartest, and in some years the smartest state in the union by the only objective metric we have: average SAT scores.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">My home state is Florida, which is middle of the pack. How did your state do, compared to Wyoming?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Other persistent powerhouses in SAT: Utah, Idaho, Montana. Those states spend the least and do the most. </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>These four states also share an interesting common demographic: Mormons.<div><br></div><div><a href="https://utahvalley360.com/2015/07/13/top-10-states-mormons/">https://utahvalley360.com/2015/07/13/top-10-states-mormons/</a></div><div><br></div><div>As of 2015: </div><div># 1: Utah, 55% Mormon</div><div># 2: Idaho, 19% Mormon</div><div># 3: Wyoming, 9% Mormon</div><div>& #8: Montana, 4% Mormon</div><div><br></div><div>Feel free to trawl through the data on the SAT site to confirm, but the actual top states are:</div><div><br></div><div>#1 Minnesota: <span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">1295</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#2 Wisconsin: 1291</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#3 Iowa: 1275</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#4 Missouri: 1271</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#5 Kansas: 1260</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#6 North Dakota: 1256</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#7 Nebraska: 1253</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#8 Kentucky: 1247</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#9 Mississippi: 1242</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#10 Utah: 1238</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#11 Wyoming: 1230</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#12 Tennessee: 1228</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#13 South Dakota: 1216</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#14 Arkansas: 1208</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">#15 Colorado: 1201</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">And just for fun, #16 Louisiana: 1198</span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">There seems to be something odd going on. A form of self-selection bias, where in states with poor educational attainment, lower level students don’t take the SAT, because they have no dreams of college. </span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">A look at the “best states” for education ranking shows a very different picture. </span><a href="https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/prek-12">https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/prek-12</a></div><div><br></div><div>I would be very amused by someone with a firm grasp of stats finding the correlation between various factors in the above data. Or even I might do it (badly) and share some graphs with y’all. </div><div><br></div><div>SR Ballard</div><div><br></div><table class="datatableStyles__StyledTable-ysgkm4-1 dXImya table table-striped" style="box-sizing: border-box; width: 588.671875px; margin-bottom: 2em; color: rgb(33, 37, 41); margin-top: 0px; overflow: hidden; border-spacing: 0px; counter-reset: row-num 0; font-family: "Open Sans", sans-serif; font-size: 14px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;"><tbody style="box-sizing: border-box;"><tr style="box-sizing: border-box;"><td style="box-sizing: border-box; padding: 5px; vertical-align: top; border-top-width: 1px; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(222, 226, 230);"><br></td></tr></tbody></table><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div dir="ltr"><br>On Jul 4, 2020, at 7:14 PM, spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>…1) The US spends far FAR <span class="gmaildefault"><b>FAR</b> </span>more on health<span class="gmaildefault">care</span> than any other country<span class="gmaildefault">…<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">These costs include facelifts, hair implants, butt lifts, boob jobs, liposuction, gender reassignments and so forth. Remove all that and what do we spend?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><br>>…2) Despite spending that vast amount of money the US only has the 38th longest life expectancy in the world.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">None of that stuff listed above extends life. Medical care does more than extend life.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><br>>… might be wise to show a little humility and admit that we don't know everything and some other countries might be able to do some things better than we can. So let's swallow our pride and learn from them…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">The obvious way to reduce spending on health care is to stop requiring a qualification process for new medications. Allow anyone to bring any medication to market. That would reduce drug costs to a fraction of what they are now. Most countries do not have anything analogous to that process in the USA.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">…<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>…I don't know where they're pushing the papers to, but if they're using all that money for testing efficacy then obviously their testing sucks because 37 countries are spending far less and getting far more. So that's pretty damn ineffective efficacy testing!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Can’t we just coattail on their system? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>>…..I wasn't aware you were in favor of affirmative action to favor minorities…<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span class="gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt">> </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt">All minorities deserve protection,</span></i><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>…Who<span class="gmaildefault"> is</span> protecting those <span class="gmaildefault">poor second class citizens </span>who get 66.7 times <span class="gmaildefault">fewer</span> citizenship rights<span class="gmaildefault">?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Those are neither second class citizens nor minorities.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>>>… but <span class="gmail-m-4876035560936148159gmaildefault">Wyoming is lily white, </span>only 2.47%<span class="gmail-m-4876035560936148159gmaildefault"> of the population is Native American and 1.8% black…</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span class="gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>>… </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Why is that relevant please? </span></i><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>…Beats <span class="gmaildefault">the hell out of me, but</span> then I'm not the one who <span class="gmaildefault">made the</span> ridiculous <span class="gmaildefault">claim that the</span> electoral college<span class="gmaildefault"> </span>protect<span class="gmaildefault">s</span> minority rights<span class="gmaildefault">.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">nd the citizens of every single one of these countries live longer than Americans do…</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">People with money in those countries travel to the USA to get top-notch medical care, both for cosmetic and for health purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>… Don't you think that maybe just maybe the US could learn something from them? Or do you continue to think there is no need to change a thing because we've already got our healthcare working just perfectly despite what the data clearly shows?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Filter out the cosmetic stuff, come back when you have numbers.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:11.55pt"><span class="gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>> </span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> …The minority of voters who live in less populated areas</span></i><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> [...]</span></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>….I don't even know what <span class="gmaildefault">"</span>minority<span class="gmaildefault">"</span> means in this context<span class="gmaildefault">…<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">I do. There are fewer people in less populated states. Minority means fewer people. Minorities should be protected.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> >…If I'm the only one living in a state with a large land area then I'm the majority of the population…<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">But a minority of the US population. Don’t get hung up on land area, for that really is irrelevant. The fewer people in a minority state have more control over a state government in the United States of America. So, they have more influence. Why is that so hard to grasp?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">If you really think this is unfair, start a party with the platform to overthrow the constitution.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>… And besides as you point out, people are able to move, so those </span></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt">who live in less populated areas can always move <span class="gmaildefault">to</span> more populated areas<span class="gmaildefault">…<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Why would they want to? Those few people in Wyoming control two senators and three EC votes. Wyoming people are smarter than us. They are really nice people out there too. You would like them. I do.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>…If it's</span></span><span style="font-size:14.0pt"> not land area then what the hell is the <span class="gmaildefault">secret </span>magical quality th<span class="gmaildefault">at makes people who live in Wyoming 66.7 times better than people who live in California?!<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Those few people control two senators and three EC votes. Wyoming people are smarter than Californians.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">>…Could the secret sauce be that people who live in Wyoming are 66.7 times as likely to be MAGA Hatter gun nuts? John K Clark<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">You were doing so well right up to the end. With the revelation in the last sentence that everything is STILL all about politics, you are STILL campaigning, your credibility dropped to half what it was. Notice nothing I wrote is partisan in any way. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">spike<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>extropy-chat mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>