<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 10:21 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><i><u></u></i></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Some jurisdictions in the USA did stop the virus better than any others.  The world’s top three are Alaska, Wyoming and Montana. </i></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">For some reason you didn't <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span>mention<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>the state with the very lowest COVID-19 death rate<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">,</span> Hawaii<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">i</span>t couldn't be because it's a democratic state c<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ould it?</span></font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:14pt">>…It can't prevent spending far <b>FAR</b> more per capita on healthcare than any other country on this planet but nevertheless only having the 38th longest life expectancy…</span></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Keep in mind that those stats don’t filter out the young gangsters who shoot each other regularly, which runs up medical costs and lowers life expectancy.  If you isolate that factor everywhere (because intentional harm messes up statistics) then the life expectancy is comparable here to other nations. </i></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">That's just plain silly, last year <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">in the US </span>2,839,205<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> died but </span>only<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>19,510 people were murdered<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">A</span> drop in the bucket.</font><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Take into account also that in most countries, students go from high school into medical school.  In the US they usually must go to college first,which runs up costs. </p></div></div></blockquote><br><font size="4">I don't know where in the world you got that but maybe it's true for Third World countries but not for the 37 countries that have a longer life expectancy than the US does. But it doesn't even matter because even if it's true it would in no way change the fact that the healthcare system in the USA sucks compared to the rest of the world, all you would've done is put your finger on one reason why it sucks compared with the rest of the world<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span></font><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">><i> </i></span><i>Our drug qualification trials are more expensive than other countries,</i></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">If true<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">,</span> which I doubt<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">,</span> it just means the US is <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">wasting that drug testing money pushing paper and not on helping patients live longer because they most certainly do NOT live longer compared with other countries that spend less than a third as much on healthcare as the USA does.</span></font></div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>which is why many other countries just wait and buy whatever makes it through that process.</i></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">Maybe <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">true </span>for <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">some </span>Third World countries but not for the 37 countries that have a longer life expectancy <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">than </span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span>the US does<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span></font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">></span>The beauty of the representative republic model </i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">Giving some people 66.7 times more representation than others is a pretty crappy model<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">,</span> and it's not very beautiful either<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span></font></div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>every American is free to move to Wyoming if we wish.</i></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">Spike<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">,</span> do you honestly believe <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">love it or leave it</span> is a good defense of the electoral college<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">?</span></font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> i</span>s that it protects minorities against majority rule.  Minorities deserve protection from majority rule, which is fascism.  All minorities deserve protection.</i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">I wasn't aware you were in favor of affirmative action to favor minorities, but <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Wyoming is lily white, </span>only 2.47%<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> of the population is Native American and 1.8% black.</span></font><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font size="4">>…In the final analysis the only rationale to defend any of this is always just a variation of the "that's the way it's always been done" theme…</font></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>On the contrary.  Had it never been done this way, it would still be the most ideal way to run a coalition of states. </p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">I am quite certain that isn't true<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">,</span> but if it was that would <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">mean </span>a <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">c</span>oalition<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> of</span> states is a bad idea<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">a</span>nd a coalition of people would work much better<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span></font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>it protects minority views in less populated places</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">Even if you accept the very dubious proposition that rich people should have more voting rights then poor people that still makes no sense because land ownership is just one of many forms of wealth. Why does how much land one person owns give him 66.7 times more voting heft, but another person's expensive Manhattan penthouse or gold or S&P 500 stocks does not similarly enhance his  citizenship?</font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><i>Regarding Wyoming: they are smarter on average than we are. </i></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">There is an existence proof <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">that</span> they are not<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I</span>n 2016 Wyoming we<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">nt</span> for Trump<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">. QED</span> </font></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1407366095605445451WordSection1"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><i>Have some respect. </i></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">From this day forward I solemnly swear to give Trump supporters all the respect they deserve<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">.</span> </font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">John K Clark</font></div><br></div><div></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
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