<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">I found it interesting that the INdonesian language has no past or future verb forms. "I do that tomorrow. Or I do that next week."</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">The more I learn about language the more I see that the world needs Esperanto or something like it, mainly for business. The big languages are big messes or homophones and tonal variations of the same word, etc. etc. Nonverbal language ditto. I read where it is just impossible for a Westerner to understand the Japanese bowing - how much, to whom, how long, etc.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:55 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_7077559853637970644WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] don't bother<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 9:57 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><i>> After 30 years of calling my Japanese friends amanojaku, I find out Amanojaku is a demon-like beast in Japanese folklore, who devours a child and dresses up in her skin in order to impersonate the child to fool her grandparents into feeding it. All this time for all those years, my sushi guy was saying “Greetings, horrifying demon.” Why that sly bastard. I don’t think I will use the other Japanese terms and phrases he suggested I say to attractive young Japanese-speaking women.</i><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Richard Feynman also tried to learn Japanese and this is what he had to say about it: </span></b><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><br><br></span><span class="gmail-m_7077559853637970644gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">>…"</span></i></span><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt">While in Kyoto I tried to learn Japanese with a vengeance. … I gave up. I decided that wasn't the language for me, and stopped learning Japanese.</span></i><span class="gmail-m_7077559853637970644gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">"</span></i></span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span class="gmail-m_7077559853637970644gmaildefault"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> John K Clark<u></u><u></u></span></b></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">The Japanese (and to some extent the Vietnamese) recognized that the whole notion of using hieroglyphics as a written language was a no-go, so they invented a form of their language which could be transmitted on a standard qwerty keyboard:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:27pt;background:rgb(248,249,250)"><span style="font-size:14pt;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Iki minangka conto saka ukara Jepang.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">They did it right: they made the spellings strictly phonetic.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">The Vietnamese argued there was no possible way to play their language thru a qwerty keyboard any more effectively than one can play rap thru a trombone. But the tried, kinda:<u></u><u></u></span></p><pre style="line-height:27pt;background:rgb(248,249,250)"><span lang="VI" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Đây là một ví dụ về một câu tiếng Nhật.</span><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u></span></pre><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">Several of those Vietnamese characters aren’t available on the standard keyboard as far as I know, yet all the voting literature in this town comes in English, Mandarin and Vietnamese. Used to have Spanish, but they dropped that.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">Clearly Vietnamese on a keyboard is a mess. The Mandarin and Cantonese didn’t even bother trying. They just learn English. Kinda.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">Since Japan recognized that they needed to go international with their written language, it seems like they (and other languages) could invent a kind of simplified subset where all those terms for the same thing are collapsed down to one word and forget the social subtleties, don’t expect the round-eyes to master all that cultural stuff (don’t worry, we won’t.)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">Even English can be greatly simplified (once we get over the whole Newspeak implications (Orwell’s Newspeak concept really shoulda been introduced in a different book with a happy outcome (the concept, minus the political angle, is one of his great ideas))) and freely recognized as a specialized subset of language.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">Example, our verb “to be.” We can express past, present and future tense with it, plurality and so forth, but that gives us 8 forms: be, being, been, am, is, are, was, were, and I mighta missed a couple, but what if… we could just accept that we sound a little like a teenage basketball star and use be for all of it?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">The goal: create a simplified Newspeak-ish vocabulary which has a simplified and formalized grammar, strictly phonetic spelling, unambiguously and rigorously defined terms, even if we need to accept clumsy and possibly harsh-sounding translations.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">Then we get other languages to meet in the middle and see what happens.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">I would be reluctant to even try to work with Japanese, having grown distrustful of everything my sushi chef taught me. I would be introduced to my neighbor’s granddaughter, try to say hello, young lady, and have it come out: Greetings, promiscuous wench. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">I must admit the Google translate feature does a hell of a good job.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">There is a point to all this, a culture thing, to follow.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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