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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 15, 2020 6:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Cc:</b> John Clark <johnkclark@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] England reduces total Covid-19 deaths by 12%<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 8:58 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://theconversation.com/im-a-covid-19-long-hauler-and-an-epidemiologist-heres-how-it-feels-when-symptoms-last-for-months-143676" target="_blank">I’m a COVID-19 long-hauler and an epidemiologist – here’s how it feels when symptoms last for months<br></a> <br><a href="https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/08/12/1006602/covid-19-long-haulers-are-organizing-online-to-study-themselves/" target="_blank">Covid-19 “long haulers” are organizing online to study themselves<br></a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> </span></span>Here’s the money quote: “As a social epidemiologist who deals with big data, I was certain it was a false negative.”<span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span>Nowhere in that article does the author say she has ever tested positive for covid-19. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>In March when she </span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>started to get</span></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> sick the COVID-19 test was really lousy, at least the test used in the USA, and it had a very large false negative</span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>. </span></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>She says "<i>What made matters worse i<b>n the beginning </b>was that my doctors were not certain I had COVID-19</i>"; <b>…</b></span><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>John K Clark<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I am not certain she had covid-19 in the beginning either, nor am I certain now. I am not her doctor. Nowhere in the article does it say she was later diagnosed with the disease, nor has ever tested positive for covid-19 and if so, what test was used. Did she go overseas to get it? We are told any covid test sold in America cannot be trusted (particularly if it tells you what you don’t already believe (isn’t that how that works? (a prole must go to Cuba or China to get a reliable covid test?))))<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>In any case, the symptoms she described do not sound like covid to me. There are other diseases that do what she describes however.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#383838;background:white'>I was diagnosed with a respiratory illness…</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'> Witvliet</span><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>What if… she had an actual respiratory illness that isn’t covid. And what if she subsequently convinced herself she had covid-19, then launched a career organizing others with a respiratory illness into a kind sympathetic online social support group in our lonely times of social distancing, and (oops) accidentally created a nice powerful voting bloc? If these things, then she really has not the option of discovering after the fact she never had covid, nor can even risk taking a nice reliable covid test from the best test kits in the world, made in China or North Korea, for they would risk coming back negative, in which case she would need to tell her following “Never mind, you have a respiratory illness, back to work” etc. Horrors. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I can imagine doctors get this kind of thing all the time. We have an actual medical doctor among us who would know, and PhD psychologists who are welcome to jump in at any time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'>>…My test was negative and I had no fever, so my symptoms did not fit into early </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf"><span style='color:#555768;background:white'>descriptions of the disease</span></a><span style='color:#383838;background:white'>. Instead, I was diagnosed with a respiratory illness… Witvliet<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'>Ja. I had stuff that sound a little like this back in December and January, but I don’t assume it is covid. Estimate about 10%-20% chance that’s what that was, but there are other strains of the flu which don’t match any of the known ones the tests will detect (the usual flu came back negative (this was before we knew of covid.)) I estimate 80 to 90% chance I had a respiratory illness, but some of the after-effects are still with me today, 8 months later. Not much point in getting tested now, since any test I could get is sold in the USA, which means I am free to disregard the results. I will get tested anyway in November at my fiz.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'>Imagine you are a doctor and have a patient who tests covid negative but insists she has covid and is a long term survivor, an organizer of others who likewise tested positive, and she doesn’t trust you if you tell her anything besides what she already knows. What do you do now?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'>What if… a patient is suffering from a variation of attention deficit disorder, where the problem isn’t that they can’t concentrate, but rather they have a psychological need for attention. Having covid would be the best medicine for that condition.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'>I did note that Dr. Margot Witvliet isn’t a medical doctor, but is a political activist:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#383838;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="http://www.margotwitvliet.com/">http://www.margotwitvliet.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>