<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">That being why I wrote “<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">if free will is wrong”, that is, if it doesn’t exist.</span><br><br><div dir="ltr">SR Ballard</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Aug 16, 2020, at 3:15 PM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">SR Ballard wrote - <i style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(80,0,80)">People cannot change themselves, they are fully at the whim of outside forces and cannot be held accountable. </i></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">This is assuming no free will, I suppose. Otherwise it's nonsense. bill w</font></i></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 2:50 PM John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 2:03 PM SR Ballard via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>I’m sorry but if free will is wrong then there is no crime or guilt. No motivation. People cannot change themselves, they are fully at the whim of outside forces and cannot be held accountable. </i></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">Sure they can. </font></span><font size="4">The only reason to hold anyone accountable for <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">d</span>oing a bad thing is to prevent <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">m</span>ore bad things from happening in the future.<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> That's justice, doing more than that, making an evil doer suffer just for the joy of watching him suffer is vengeance. </span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The threat of punishment <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">is</span> just one more outside force pushing people in the direction of not hurting other people<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">, and I like that direction. I don't like vengeance.</span></span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></span></font></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> John K Clark</span></span></font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
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