<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">There is no conflict between Haidt and Kohlberg.  One, Haidt, is a set of categories into which similar beliefs fall.  Kohlberg is a developmental stage theory wherein increasingly sophisticated moral reasoning is used by people from infancy onward. Most people do not achieve the last two stages.  bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:20 PM Henry Rivera via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">This may provide jumping off points for people interested in reading more </span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">From </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory?wprov=sfti1" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory?wprov=sfti1 </a></div><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:700;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:16.15px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:0px 0px">Moral foundations theory</span> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:medium">is a</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Social_psychological" title="Social psychological" style="font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:16.15px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank">social psychological</a> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:medium">theory intended to explain the origins of and variation in human moral reasoning on the basis of innate, modular foundations.</span><sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Haidt2004_1-0" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Haidt2004-1" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"><sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Graham2013_2-0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"></sup></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Graham2013-2" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"> It was first proposed by the psychologists </a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Jonathan_Haidt" title="Jonathan Haidt" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:16.15px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank">Jonathan Haidt</a>, Craig Joseph and Jesse Graham, building on the work of cultural anthropologist <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Richard_Shweder" title="Richard Shweder" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:16.15px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank">Richard Shweder</a>;<sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Shweder1997_3-0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Shweder1997-3" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank">and subsequently developed by a diverse group of collaborators, and popularized in Haidt's book <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:italic;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:16.15px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:0px 0px"></span></a><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:italic;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:16.15px;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:0px 0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/The_Righteous_Mind" title="The Righteous Mind" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank">The Righteous Mind</a></span>.<sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Haidt_4-0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Haidt-4" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"> The theory proposes six foundations: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, Loyalty/Betrayal, Authority/Subversion, Sanctity/Degradation, and Liberty/Oppression;<sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Iyer2012_5-0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"></sup></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Iyer2012-5" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"><sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Haidt_4-1" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"></sup></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Haidt-4" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"> while its authors remain open to the addition, subtraction or modification of the set of foundations.<sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Graham2013_2-1" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"></sup></a><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:12.92px;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:nowrap;background-position:0px 0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Graham2013-2" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank">(<span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border-width:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-position:0px 0px">pp104–107</span>)</a></span></sup></sup></sup></div><div dir="ltr"><sup style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><sup style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><sup style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px">...</sup></sup></sup></div><div dir="ltr"><sup style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><sup style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><sup style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><span style="font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:medium">In contrast to the dominant theories of morality in psychology, the anthropologist Richard Shweder developed a set of theories emphasizing the cultural variability of moral judgments, but argued that different cultural forms of morality drew on "three distinct but coherent clusters of moral concerns", which he labeled as the ethics of autonomy, community, and divinity.</span><sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Shweder1997_3-1" style="font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Shweder1997-3" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"><sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-11" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"></sup></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-11" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"> Shweder's approach inspired Haidt to begin researching moral differences across cultures, including fieldwork in Brazil and Philadelphia.<sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Haidt1993_12-0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"></sup></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Haidt1993-12" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"> This work led Haidt to begin developing his </a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Social_intuitionism" title="Social intuitionism" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:16.15px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank">social intuitionist</a> approach to morality.<sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Haidt2001_9-1" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Haidt2001-9" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"> This approach, which stood in sharp contrast to Kohlberg's rationalist work, suggested that "moral judgment is caused by quick moral intuitions" while moral reasoning simply serves as a post-hoc rationalization of already formed judgments.<sup id="gmail-m_-3232930103763281746cite_ref-Haidt2001_9-2" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"></sup></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Moral_foundations_theory#cite_note-Haidt2001-9" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-size:12.1125px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration:none;background-position:0px 0px" target="_blank"> Haidt's work and his focus on quick, intuitive, emotional judgments quickly became very influential, attracting sustained attention from an array of researchers.</a></sup></sup></sup></sup></sup></div><div dir="ltr"><sup style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><sup style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><sup style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><sup style="font-family:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1;font-size:0.75em;unicode-bidi:isolate;background-position:0px 0px"><br></sup></sup></sup></sup></div></div><div dir="ltr"><blockquote type="cite">On Aug 26, 2020, at 2:11 PM, John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 10:52 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>The law is highly important and of course I didn't have to tell you that.  But morality calls upon higher laws at times</span></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">I agree. Somebody found out in 1945 where Ann Frank and her family were hiding and told the Gestapo about it, for him to do otherwise would have been illegal. So to call that man a criminal would not be entirely accurate, but to call him a monster certainly would be. Can this lead to contradictions between the law and morality? Yes, but then neither the law nor morality is entirely self consistent anyway. Nevertheless in most (but not all) cases it's usually pretty clear what the moral thing to do is, having the guts to actually do it is an entirely different matter.</font><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><font size="4"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> John K Clark</span></font></div></div>
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