<div dir="ltr">"To scale" may be setting the bar too high. By that definition - "billions" - we haven't yet taken air conditioning, and have only just barely taken hot and cold running water "to scale".</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 1:39 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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On 28/10/2020 18:02, John Grigg wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>We need to get our best minds out there, to observe and help us
understand what is happening down here, but also to develop new
technologies and <a href="https://www.livescience.com/4091-10-ways-improve-earth-health.html" target="_blank">ways to
save the planet</a>, create new products such as medicines and
to begin utilizing the resources of space to take the pressure
off our home world. Governments have shown they are unable to
make it efficient, and they certainly can't take it to scale.</p>
<p>Look, if you're reading this, you probably already "get it"
when it comes to the importance of opening what Dr. G.K. O'Neill
called "<a href="https://target.georiot.com/Proxy.ashx?tsid=74387&GR_URL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FHigh-Frontier-Human-Colonies-Apogee%2Fdp%2F189652267X%3Ftag%3Dhawk-future-20%26ascsubtag%3Dlivescience-us-4858645465568343000-20" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">The High
Frontier</a>" (the seminal book on space settlement that
converted Bezos and became one of his early products). There
isn't much time for the space community to act, and as members
of a society of nerds for whom it is as patently obvious that we
must open space as that there will be another "<a href="https://www.space.com/31802-star-trek-space-tech.html" target="_blank">Star
Trek</a>" spinoff, we need to get much better at engaging the
rest of the world in this new conversation about space.</p>
<p>It really is critical that these space revolutionaries not only
be allowed to, but are supported in their quests. The best thing
we can do is to understand and speak to the concerns of those
who don't yet understand why this is happening and what the true
drivers are behind it all."</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think exactly the same could be said about uploading research, and
imo, that is much more likely, relevant and useful.<br>
<br>
I used to be a big fan of space colonisation ('monkeys in space'
version), but ever since learning about uploading, have changed my
mind. I can't see putting biological humans into space as a solution
to anything, it's far too difficult, expensive, and could only ever
be applied to a tiny fraction of the human race. Uploading, on the
other hand, has the potential to be far cheaper, attainable for
everyone who wants it, and much, much more useful.<br>
<br>
And, once uploading is cracked, space colonisation would be
trivially easy. Our ecological footprint could be far smaller, if it
was taken up en masse, and it would open up possibilities that
stagger the imagination.<br>
<br>
To me, now, the traditional notion of space colonisation looks
quaint and, frankly, misguided.<br>
<br>
"Governments have shown they are unable to make it efficient, and
they certainly can't take it to scale.". True. Nobody can, not when
"to scale" refers to billions of people. Putting a 100kg package
into orbit will always take the same minimum amount of energy.
Uploading a person's mind, on the other hand, is subject to all
kinds of technological and economic 'accelerating returns'
principles. Actually transmitting an uploaded mind off the planet,
well, that would take a few watts.<br>
<br>
Yes, the infrastructure would have to be in place for that to make
any sense.<br>
<br>
We already routinely launch satellites and robotic probes all over
the solar system. The only extra factor would be some computing
substrate to run minds in, and a receiver that could reliably catch
the transmitted minds. Suddenly, your dumb robotic probes would be
alive, intelligent, communities of people. Migrating the tribes of
humanity into space would be a matter of expending a few gigawatts
of radio energy. You wouldn't even have to wreck the environment for
those who choose to stay behind.<br>
<br>
I'm not saying it would be easy, just that it would be easier,
cheaper, more practical and more realistic than 'monkeys in space'.
As well as being something that can be worked on by small outfits.
Not something that can be said of biological space colonisation.<br>
<br>
Re. 'saving the planet', I think George Carlin said it best. It's
not the planet that needs saving. The planet's fine.<br>
<br>
This is one nerd to whom it's patently obvious that we need to
develop uploading technology as soon as we possibly can. You can
watch too much "Star Trek". It should remain firmly in the realm of
entertainment, I reckon, while we get on with developing uploading
(after which, you can indulge in as much Star Trek as you want! All
the cool things (even the impossible ones) in Star Trek (and much
more besides) would be easy for uploads).<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
</div>
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</blockquote></div>