Why not both?<br><br>I haven't seen issues with censoring on Aragon. It forms the DAO on chain.<br><br>Make a Canonizer? I'll get to work on Aragon. Experiment and see which one people gravitate too.<br><br>I'm only rushing because ETH gas fees are cheap right now. If we want to make something on Ethereum, now's the best time.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Oct 28, 2020, 6:23 PM, Brent Allsop < brent.allsop@gmail.com> wrote:<blockquote class="protonmail_quote"><br><div dir="ltr"><br><div>The video on the front page of <a href="http://canonizer.com">canonizer.com</a> is the best <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_733d8730-7736-4e3c-9c94-6526560fa476">place</span> to <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_ce97e368-1044-4db5-981e-ff26cdf183f5">begin</span>.</div><div>Next, the white paper, "<a href="https://canonizer.com/files/2012_amplifying_final.pdf">Amplifying the Wisdom of <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_3d4b4fe9-161f-4d97-92cb-26db0a5d5f0b">the Crowd</span>,Building and Measuring for Expert and Moral Consensus</a>" <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_93f107e2-be87-4880-b552-318fcaacb2bd">linked</span> to on the side bar by James Carroll is a deep dive.</div><div><br></div><div>Aragon, like all the other cryptos that <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_6c85a375-c320-4136-9056-3394810f6cbf">purportedly</span> are "<span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_05323e67-f1f3-4369-a4b3-336cb354f102">good</span> at built in <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_8aadc93b-ce57-47d3-9270-9cf9d6d97ae2">governance</span>". it just polarizes <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_815209be-c46b-405f-b535-a92c6f761ca5">people</span>, censors, and so on. Identical to everything on the <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_4f6b7792-9d6e-48f8-86aa-5de2736c8a06">internet</span>, from <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_9dc47613-0ca6-40a8-bc67-5000bc369909">online</span> <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_b8f0f94f-c572-4296-b1c1-ccf9f6230325">surveys</span>, to all <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_022aa076-c37d-4aa8-9d39-12ba5ce32120">modern</span> <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_ec456c71-76af-40a9-9f02-3bd85882a2a7">voting</span> systems. it's all just <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_1249360d-8865-4397-bc6b-b1fde0acd9a6">censoring</span> and polarization.</div><div><br></div><div>Consensus <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_bec12021-9e3b-44a2-a913-a7a3edca5291">building</span> and <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_607c9cf7-d20f-452a-9f45-15ec9bb49635">tracking</span>, is what you need. Canonizesr is the only <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_302f0024-2782-4e51-935b-f54bf12fe2c5">system</span> on the <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_687005ae-3fc5-4e79-b04e-e7bf67cbad5c">internet</span> that <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_8e50a31a-11e8-48ca-9754-545ecd2e32e9">builds</span> consensus, and can scale, without censoring.</div><div><br></div><div>Anything I can do to <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_edd47801-6317-4797-93f6-f48eda1e5b51">help</span> get the DAO <span class="wordtune_suggestion wordtune-replaceable-0-1-48" id="wdt_7fe053e4-847f-448e-b8b8-3ed9f5c3dd00">started</span>?</div><div><br></div><div>Brent</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 4:13 PM JF via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Can you drop a link about Canonizer?<br><br>I'm only familiar with Aragon, which can give you a liquid democracy. In terms of your issue with governance, liquid democracy's always give people a way to sell their tokens and move on. You pretty much can't force consensus so token governance by liquid democracies just accepts this. My experience in this area tells me you just have to have totally different expectations than normal governances.<br><br>Is anyone opposed to just spinning one up and seeing how it goes? I can make one called "Extropian DAO" and we could go from there. If it's a dud, then it's not that big of a deal.<br><br><br><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Oct 28, 2020, 2:02 PM, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat < <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<blockquote><br><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">I am <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_004f0bcc-b20d-42e7-af4a-4da688124cef">definitely</span> on board with this. What are the next <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_ab36b77d-dd5f-43f7-9de5-bc78c636b384">steps</span>? <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_d0d4500c-fbec-4e0b-8696-93bc46cd35c6">Also</span>, <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_befa77f4-ecfb-4058-b716-e8d9924b7df0">in my opinion</span>, any DAO requires a
consensus <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_6e0e6c4b-5bc6-4d34-9af6-512720842dc4">building</span> <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_aed96d37-c646-4e58-9803-fc1c3c4243a3">system</span> like we can do with Canonizer. Once you <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_730ccd17-4e4e-4d7b-a175-a12d41534d5d">start</span> <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_5966fd6d-ff34-4ff2-b69f-6f1a37e320f9">collecting</span> people for any
<span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_e6b800e6-cc94-4e6a-926b-8c0566658ce7">project</span>, you <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_baa8c424-b115-487d-b7d9-4e155cc6bfcf">discover</span> differences of opinion which polarizes and fractures the
collective, before you even get <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_7593f154-80f8-4a49-a206-6aed1a804817">started</span>.
The camp tree <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_5050f8f4-9c62-4db4-a5eb-11c830f9d7cc">structure</span> in Canonizer <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_66f0c177-b14c-44b3-b053-475ced03c1f3">enables</span> you to <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_cb216ff1-aee5-4050-a518-396e8483de76">push</span> these <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_f0cd2a7c-9afa-4a90-ae60-ac8337f9ebbc">ideas</span>
(<span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_079e83f4-1d35-4efd-8ce6-8c45701f502b">always</span> less <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_ca4f9338-347c-47ea-9c58-6c89e7235615">important</span> that what <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_bb346bcf-e6fb-4997-933a-9063700a73e3">everyone</span> <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_aae84ea0-bb29-49ae-8455-863c7161e39e">agrees on</span>) down into supporting sub
camps, out of the way of the <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_71f9c989-1ded-44f8-8ad5-791a04826f7b">consensus</span> you are <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_1c7af9bb-291a-45e3-a070-e37195e3fc4c">building</span> in the super camp.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Let’s <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_27c4710b-91e1-408f-80de-577a400a713b">brainstorm</span> some of what we’d <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_325f7112-3c24-4f2e-8151-3a5d86b75a3e">like</span> to do
and <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_a9cc8e8f-7baa-4de7-8ffb-cd38279a5ccc">indicate</span> who is on board with sucvh <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_3249d2d8-085f-4a4d-8af2-d22715fedf37">ideas</span>.
If we get <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_0c337be1-37f1-4421-a42c-d0e76a6e443c">started</span> with a <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_96f3f930-428a-47bc-ab4d-488bc21720d7">collection</span> of <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_ad8b1952-ef72-42a2-8587-af086bfc4f41">ideas</span>, we could <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_fe4d25be-367c-4b73-a991-f263a44caaf6">create</span> a <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_15575e48-21bf-4862-8882-576f8b1bfce6">topic</span> on
canonizer, with a camp for each <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_2b28014f-1e46-4d98-ba64-cd02870932dd">proposal</span>, in a way that <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_706d695e-9cc9-4c69-b455-592e7cb4be24">people</span> could rank which
ones they’d <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_ffe6d692-291d-464a-8d32-0b537f9e1ab0">like</span> to <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_bab0853d-f1a0-4d41-b9d2-1861e8e48586">support</span>, and how, and so on. Here are <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_53dff7ab-69fc-4be2-92b2-874e32eec78e">a few</span> <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_2c88e816-d534-487a-803c-6da52e221c7d">things</span> I’d <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_60160c0d-b6f9-4364-8ef2-963f416f2b58">like</span> to do:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">1. We need communicate to society, <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_a3899cba-174e-4f5f-8eaa-6fd63f1cea67">especially</span> billionaires,
that achieving immortality and <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_49468656-170a-4b45-92d7-579f692af2d5">ability</span> to <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_51bceb21-aa0e-4729-86d7-7d85e2c40040">redesign</span> our bodies so we can <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_e49d485c-1012-4b39-a92b-118dd6f82ddc">survive</span>
in space, without space suits, before we make <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_cf4fa56d-ab84-44fa-9eb1-bf663871f88b">significant</span> investments in space. We need to have <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_3ecb6d67-8acd-4aa9-a9df-12fa484e6314">lots of</span> <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_5f37c7bb-8e3f-40f8-b92f-f82b640eeb1d">cheap</span> <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_26471374-7502-44a6-af4a-f826f0cb7494">copies</span> of
ourselves, <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_98f9f784-83cf-47cf-9624-27291e74b720">specifically</span> <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_3a7ac067-ab81-4d9d-94dc-c8fb99611a03">designed</span> to <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_e1d630a3-ef00-4fa6-8aa3-e2bd07343686">survive</span> in space, and on mars, without
space suits.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">2. <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_0d54ad7d-8e7b-44bd-a973-2163ae9275bb">Promote</span> cryonic <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_75abcad4-93d9-406b-b9e4-8c53e066dc48">preservation</span>, and assistance
<span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_264187b5-efd0-4280-8b2b-e9c0b2b20ef7">programs</span> to <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_4a1797aa-7b20-4d18-8574-8f12f4665776">encourage</span> this.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">What other <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_c0a365dc-d265-4f5b-aaee-e9ff8e3b07f7">ideas</span> do people have? <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_fd6937ab-3c87-4a3d-b244-ddc086e780b1">Anything</span> more <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_069a4e37-aa62-4d9b-aea7-6f2d7fad8f15">specific</span> than just <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_53c3a048-796e-47ad-b808-67d308827031">convincing</span>
people of <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188wdt_b30e8900-a49b-4f2a-9473-39a53b622ae3">things</span>?</span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 3:27 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I want in! <br></div><div><br></div><div>I feel like I'm in an Oceans Eleven movie... : ) </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 6:26 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">What if we make a novel cryptocurrency and fund ourselves with that? Given the history of the list, it would make sense.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 3:11 PM Dave Sill via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 12:38 PM JF <span id="gmail-m_-5685355076775334188gmail-m_-8099157492151075655gmail-m_2673499067772154930m_1471648485362214728wdt_a010b1eb-c0e7-4db2-a6fa-271a12456fc4">via</span> extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>As mentioned in a previous post, it would be interesting to put together an Ex-DAO. I assume the DAO would fund certain missions that could push the Extropian narrative globally for people who want to contribute and have a voting stake in these narratives. Once created, it's totally up to the DAO to do what it wants. Each user must stake to enter the DAO, and in return, they receive voting rights. They may at any point burn their voting rights as a percentage of the money in the current vault, so at any point, you may leave if you don't like the direction of the DAO. Personally, I think this would make this chat a bit more interesting and put some action to some of the news topics we discuss. Maybe we start becoming part of the news?<br></div><div><br></div><div>Is anyone actually interested in this? How much money could we realistically raise? I have some experience in the setup of this and it doesn't take much to put together.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm interested. I just don't have a feel for what it would be used for. If it requires a lot of money to do anything useful, that would undoubtedly make it harder.</div><div><br></div><div>-Dave</div></div></div>
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