<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">I have an unexpected and positive update on </div><div dir="ltr">my local situation! </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Sports have all been cancelled here so far this year, so maybe this was an opportune time to rock the boat. Or all our letters and data finally penetrated some skulls. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Either way, I’ll take the victory, which is really one for our kids. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">12/11/20 </span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">(Northampton, MA) — It’s been years in discussion…but now it’s official. Students in Northampton will start school later in the morning. The city’s school committee voted last night to move the high school start time next September to 9 a.m. Advocates have long been calling for a later start time so teenagers can get more sleep. Northampton’s elementary students will start at 8am next Fall…Middle Schoolers will start classes at 8:30.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Nov 14, 2020, at 8:42 AM, spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>Thanks Henry, great essay.</span><br><span></span><br><span>I too have a high schooler and agree: they like to stay up later than I do. California schools took action on this and moved earliest start times back from 730 to 830. Then the pandemic hit, which changed things even more, but in some ways for the better, at least for some students: they can drag out at 828, log on, be in class ready to go. Eat breakfast after or even during, if they move the camera up to show only eyes. Plenty do this. I know for I often attend that very worthwhile first period class in the morning, so I can see who is doing what.</span><br><span></span><br><span>We recently heard Santa Clara public schools will be online the rest of the year because of disappointing covid numbers that plenty of us already knew were likely, for we know that flu travels best indoors, regardless of all other considerations. It turned cool recently. People went indoors. School's online for the year.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Online school is very bad for some, not as good as in-person school for most, a benefit for a few. The academically rich get richer, the poor get poorer. We know. A sizable fraction of the students don't even bother to participate: they log on, mute their microphone, set the camera to show only the top of their head, then play video games on a separate device. As far as we know, the teacher is obligated to give that student a passing grade. The failing students know this as well. Some choose to get their pass and a free high school diploma.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Other students turn a bad situation around to their advantage. I am a volunteer for American Math Competition, California Math League and Science Olympiad, so I am lucky to know the kind of students who make stepping stones out of stumbling blocks. But I see plenty of students who find ways to turn stepping stones into stumbling blocks. Some step up, some fall down.</span><br><span></span><br><span>spike</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br><span>From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of Henry Rivera via extropy-chat</span><br><span>Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 9:02 PM</span><br><span>To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org></span><br><span>Cc: Henry Rivera <hrivera@alumni.virginia.edu></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [ExI] Fwd: year round school</span><br><span></span><br><span>I’ve given some thought to this topic of hours and have authored similar letters as Bill and been a co-signer to some. Me and a cadre of local mental health professionals have been seeking a change in the hours of schools in our distinct for at least 5 years. My high schooler has to be in his first classroom at 7:45am. His brain wants ten hours of sleep but he and his peers like to be up well after 10pm. Getting them to bed on time meets with resistance and instances of sneakily texting from bed. Do the algebra if you graduated high school and can. He doesn’t get enough sleep and drags through days too often. The research and data on what adolescents’ brains need is clear. I think our failure to convince powers-that-be to change the hours comes down to sports. And this is true in other jurisdictions across the country. </span><br><span></span><br><span>There are some parents and stakeholders that value and prioritize sports (which require, sometimes daily, after-school practices). Those parents see their kids come home after 1-3 hours of practice and have hours of homework. I used to have three hours of homework in high school. It seems like a little less for my high schooler Then there is dinner to fit in and they want their kids to have some unstructured time before it’s time for bed. If you change the school hours your options are all of that after school stuff gets pushed back a few hours later such that there is no unstructured time after homework is done basically; or you move those sport practices to before school and make just those kids get up early to squeeze in 1-2 hours of practice before classes start at 9 or later for example. The sport people don’t want either, so status quo remains. </span><br><span></span><br><span>Personally, I tried out for 2 sports early on in high school and ended up playing chess after school, working on the yearbook or school paper, doing community service, and or working on drama productions on the stage and light crew which could take 3-5 hours on the run up to opening night. I had an hour commute to my private high school most of the time. So I know what it’s like to get home after eating on the road and doing homework until bed time. I loved doing those plays I’ll have you know. I was not deprived, and I’m not complaining. It was a choice on my part to be doing that vs spending additional time bumming around with friends or playing video games. So I didn’t mind it and was willing to have those trade offs. </span><br><span></span><br><span>If athletics program kids make similar commitments and don’t mind getting up early I think that would be preferred over the current state of everyone being forced to get up early and being disadvantaged. Consider many kids may have nothing structured like sports practice after school and thus no motive to ensure school ends early enough to fit in lots of stuff after school. </span><br><span></span><br><span>-Henry </span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Nov 13, 2020, at 8:57 PM, Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 7:32 PM William Flynn Wallace via </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>extropy-chat <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>my letter to a legislator, head of the Education committee - your thoughts? bill w</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>---------- Forwarded message ---------</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: William Flynn Wallace <foozler83@gmail.com></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 10:48 AM</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: year round school</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <ddebar@senate.ms.gov></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear Sir,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I have a Ph. D. in Experimental and Clinical Psychology and taught for over 35 years. The idea of a 'summer slump' comes from studies on memory that do indeed show that students will do more poorly or even fail on tests that they took just a few weeks or months ago. Even at Harvard. But, they were not given the chance to study for them again - they had to take them cold.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>That absolutely does NOT mean that those memories are gone forever. No. Memories that last more than a day or two are with us permanently, though the longer we live the harder it is to retrieve them, mainly because of competition from later memories. There are some good reasons to have year long schooling, but the 'summer slump' is not one of them.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The very best thing the Legislature could do to help students is to start school later in the day. At that age they are mostly night owls and wake up slowly, so that learning at 8 o'clock is difficult. They are there, they are awake, but their brains are still fuzzy. There are many studies done by physicians and psychologists that validate those conclusions.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I do not think it matters with year long schooling how long the breaks are. I would be in favor of adding hours of school to the ones we have now.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Just on a tangent: requiring Algebra is just wrong. Fewer than 5% of the high school graduates ever use it. I am in a chat group with a bunch of engineers and they concur - no value to students unless they are going into science, technology, engineering, or math (STEM), and those students will certainly take algebra, precalculus, and calculus if offered, along with geometry, solid geometry, trigonometry. Requiring algebra keeps many students from graduating. A waste of minds, in my opinion. And a lifelong hindrance to job prospects. Of course it differentially impacts minority students.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sincerely,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>William F. Wallace, Ph. D. University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa Brandon </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>MS</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I agree with Adrian about algebra being very useful, especially to </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>people who don't pursue STEM careers.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>But I would turn this around on you. It's not so much that failing </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>algebra keeps kids from graduating high school, but that the high </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>school diploma was so important -- though nowadays, it's the Bachelors </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and even the Masters in some fields. In fact, one can learn algebra </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>before and without getting high school diploma -- just as one can </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>learn to read, write, and even do complicated mental stuff without </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>said diploma. Yet someone without one is almost certain to be unable </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to get jobs that don't even require more than, say, a fifth grader's </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>level of education in competence. Therein lies the real problem with </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>education today: vast expenditures to little effect mainly aimed at </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>credentialing people because there's a credentials arms race.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Again, I recommend Bryan Caplan's 02018 book _The Case Against</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money_.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>With regard to the summer slump, I think it will fix more things in </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>long term memory, but there will still be losses. For instance, how </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>much history or civics or high school French will you remember if you </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>went to school year round, graduated, but then never use any of these </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>for a decade? Surely, you won't be starting at zero, but the question </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>might better be why teach stuff kids aren't interested in, will only </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>remember on the test, and will only recall later if at all after much </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>prompting? What's the goal here? (Second language instruction, in my </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>view, should take place at a much younger age anyhow. That's how the </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>rest of the world tends to work with this. And given current </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>conditions in the US, the basic student in the US should be fluent in </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Spanish as a second language before they reach puberty. And I've </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>nothing against having kids, provided they have a say, learning a </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>third language. Etc.)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I agree about the teenage brain being ready much later in the day.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Therein lies a problem: adults who are supposed to teach these teens </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>actually are better earlier in the day and fade earlier. So, it's kind </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>of a compromise one would have to look for here or some tech fix -- </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>like having teachers from one timezone teach kids in another. (And, of </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>course, all kids aren't alike, so with the tech for remote teaching, </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>why not parlay this into suiting each class to the students and the </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>teachers across the globe? Kids who are really early risers -- though </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>few -- could go to early classes while the rest go later, especially </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>if it's mostly/all remote.)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Regards,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Dan</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>extropy-chat mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>extropy-chat mailing list</span><br><span>extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</span><br><span>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>extropy-chat mailing list</span><br><span>extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</span><br><span>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>