<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">Skin color as insignificant is an ideal, certainly not a reality. I am still learning about the distinction between Leftists and liberals and the conservatives. Anything that goes beyond, contradicts the video, I would like to see in a post. Where are these Leftists, aside from the professors in the Ivy League who are said to hate America and the European culture? Democrats? Repubs? I don't know who these guys are. Help!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">bill w</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 5:06 PM F. C. Moulton via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Since I am trying to be more positive this month I will start off
by saying something positive about the video: I did not notice any
spelling errors.</p>
<p>I was very disappointed in the content of the video however not
surprised. I am not going to waste my time going through the
video point by point however I will offer one example from the
beginning. Near the beginning of the video is the assertion that
the Liberal Position concerning "The color of a person's skin" is
"Insignificant" about 44 seconds in the video. Of course as a
blanket statement this is misleading in large part because it does
not provide context for that assertion. Consider the context of
finding a job or renting an apartment, certainly many people apply
for jobs or apartments and are not selected however if (all other
things being equal) persons with dark skin are proportionately
less likely to get the job or apartment then skin color is
significant; in fact skin color has an observational significance
which is necessary before one can even consider explanatory
significance. <br>
</p>
<p>Now I suspect that at this point there are fingers poised over
keyboards about to explain how this is obviously not what was
meant. I am not going to say that I know the inner thoughts of
the the person in the video nor will I say that the person is
necessarily deliberately being dishonest however I will urge great
caution before signing on too quickly to their rhetoric. For
example I would not be surprised if some are about ready to write
something about the "Liberal Position" being that skin color is
insignificant as relates to the "Rule of Law" and that "Rule of
Law" is a "Good Thing" or something similar. So consider the
example of a fine for speeding with nothing in the law relating to
skin color in relation to the amount of the fine. At first glance
one might say skin color is not significant since it is not
mentioned in the law however consider how it plays out for very
poor people who might not have the money to pay the fine and might
wind up with a suspended driving license and then get caught
driving to work on a suspended license and are jailed and then
lose their job whereas the relatively financially well of pull out
their American Express card and problem goes away with much lower
impact on their daily life. Now if poor people are
disproportionately of a particular skin color or ethnicity or
religion or whatever would that be significant? What about right
dominant hand versus left dominant hand? If some law does not
mention dominant hand however if persons with a left dominant hand
are getting fined more often in proportion to their level in the
population would not you say the dominant hand might maybe perhaps
be significant and at least worth considering. <br>
</p>
<p> One reason I am taking the time to write this is that I have
seen well meaning people fall into the trap of uncritically
accepting "skin color is not significant" or "color blind to race"
when they mean that they do their best not to prejudge someone
based on skin color. However things get sticky when these same
well meaning people start to try to talk about some phenomena
where skin color might be an important consideration and persons
who do not want the conversation to take place or who want to
steer it in a different direction say "Wait why are you bringing
up skin color, did not we all agree that skin color was
insignificant. Only racists want to talk about race all of the
time" and the conversation either gets derailed or never gets
started. So to avoid this I strongly suggest we all developed
nuanced and sophisticated views on race, gender, etc. And as for
the video I suggest those who initially thought it a good video
put on your Popperian hats and look at every statement in the
video and think of examples which contradict what is said as well
as what is implied. Seriously. This is an extropian email list.<br>
</p>
<p>I wrote at the beginning of my remarks that I was disappointed in
the content of the video but not surprised. So to continue that
thought I will note that I have not seen very many <a href="http://prageru.com" target="_blank">prageru.com</a>
videos however each that I have seen appears to be intellectually
shallow. So I will end these comments by noting that this video
is consistent in that tradition.</p>
<p>Fred<br>
</p>
<div>On 12/27/2020 11:10 AM, spike jones via
extropy-chat wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn
Wallace via extropy-chat<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ExI] very informative<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal/" target="_blank">https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>>…<span style="color:black">I simply did
not know. When liberals have been attacked I have
defended them. But what I did not know was that it is
not the ultraliberals who came up with the ideas I
fought - it was the Leftists. <u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>>…<span style="color:black">Very clear
differences. I am most definitely a liberal and not a
Leftist. bill </span>w<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks for that billw. What Prager describes
as liberal is something I have always thought of as
libertarian. I agree with everything he said in that
video. You and I are liberals.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>spike<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
F. C. Moulton
<a href="mailto:moulton@moulton.com" target="_blank">moulton@moulton.com</a></pre>
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