<div dir="ltr">
<div>Nuala Thomson, I look forward to hearing further what you have to say... I find these subjects deeply fascinating....</div><div><br></div><div>John<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 10:40 AM Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I'm so sorry Bill W!<div dir="auto">That is a huge question and hard to answer.</div><div dir="auto">No matter what, every single person reacts differently and experiences differently to both pharmaceuticals and illegal drugs. So the latest in DNA testing to narrow down which antidepressants are more likely to help rather than hinder I think is a very much needed first step.</div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/gene-testing-to-guide-antidepressant-treatment-has-its-time-arrived-2019100917964" target="_blank">https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/gene-testing-to-guide-antidepressant-treatment-has-its-time-arrived-2019100917964</a><br></div><div dir="auto">The next stage is going to be able to confirm whether it's a person's state of mind/way of thinking or an actual chemical imbalance and therefore whether a form of therapy (CBT, DBT, etc.) Would be better suited to them over antidepressants, stabilisers, or antipsychotics. The struggle to differentiate on the more suitable path is real, and quite often here (Australia) doctors opt for both (therapy and drugs) simultaneously. This is both good and bad.</div><div dir="auto">I'm going to go back to gene testing for antidepressants for a moment and I'm going to use 'Subject J' as an example. He had been on and off antidepressants for the better part of 20 years trying to find one that actually worked with acceptable side effects. I can't say what the last one he took was but I can say that it was 'the one'. His neuro chemistry is permanently changed and he no longer needs to take medication. This is what I hope the dna tests will help to accomplish in a more acceptable time frame.</div><div dir="auto">I could talk a lot more on the use of therapy treating borderline and bipolar disorders which stem from trauma but I want to touch on illicit substances.</div><div dir="auto">Again, everyone reacts differently so one person might respond to MDMA as I would expect (loving, friendly, talkative, open communication) another person will respond entirely differently. An example that I saw was nauseous, tired, completely closed off. That person ended up just going to sleep. Opposite responses will happen with everything.</div><div dir="auto">Illicit drugs and mental illness is also a mega topic for me and typing this email on a phone screen is getting frustrating.</div><div dir="auto">Illicit substances in the use for dealing with mental illness is not as funded as I would like it to be, and obviously this email started with evidence that it should have more funding. MDMA in couples or marriage sessions can be great as it is the love drug. People are able to openly communicate coming from a place of love instead of a place of spite or maliciousness. Hallucinogenics I'm assuming everyone knows how they work whether or not you've actually tried any. I believe for a more permanent response in the treatment of mental illness the trip should be guided. I'm going to refer to my own experiences for this one. My first time ever specifically. I was 18 and dating a pretty amazing person. I also have a history of mental illness myself. Keeping this simple and vague; Somewhere in the journey, in the span of about 30min I cycled through every possible emotion processing childhood abuse. The person I was with just allowed and accepted everything and listened.</div><div dir="auto">Now for sure there is still some processing to do but not like that. That was about 75% of the process complete in one go. If I had been alone in that, it would not have gone like that. Long term, the benefits still blow my mind.</div><div dir="auto">It's that benefit that I hope will eventually be more accepted. Micro dosing is certainly a lot safer and more easily controlled.</div><div dir="auto">A major problem I see with mental illness and illicit drugs is the habitual use as a way of masking pain and trauma. The excessive use stops the healing process and causes more long term issues. I've found the people in this situation are a lot less likely to seek professional help, are reluctant to let someone help them, and will just continue until something changes, but denial runs strong in that group.</div><div dir="auto">And then we have the group of people (such as myself) who have pre-existing mental illness, who micro dosing would be extremely beneficial for, but where the risk of adverse effects is strong.</div><div dir="auto">E.g.. Paranoid after effects.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I'm sorry. I would love to continue but I'm truly sick of typing on a phone. I would love your opinion and experiences on such topics and we can continue the conversation later.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun., Apr. 18, 2021, 09:17 William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat, <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 8:16 PM Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Will, do you mean pharmaceuticals in terms of the treatment of mental illness or something else?</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">It's Bill W - anything at all that you know - mental illness - self-treatment for mental problems, etc. Just the illegal drugs. bill w</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat., Apr. 17, 2021, 10:40 William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat, <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Nuala, what do you think of the efficacy of the drugs as far as you are concerned? bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 7:30 PM Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Here in Aus medical marijuana still has THC and gets you fucked up! The strongest weed you could possibly get.<div dir="auto">On the other hand CBD oil which is also being shown to help with anxiety and depression does not contain THC.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat., Apr. 17, 2021, 04:00 William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat, <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="gmail_default"></span>Yes, but medical marijuana has the THC taken out of it - no highs. </div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34)">This is false </span>It depends:</div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><a href="https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/medical-marijuana/art-20137855#:~:text=Medical%20marijuana%20%E2%80%94%20also%20called%20medical,)%20and%20CBD%20(cannabidiol" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/medical-marijuana/art-20137855#:~:text=Medical%20marijuana%20%E2%80%94%20also%20called%20medical,)%20and%20CBD%20(cannabidiol</a>).<br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 11:37 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 12:09 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"></span>Yes, but medical marijuana has the THC taken out of it - no highs. </div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is false</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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