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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 23, 2021 5:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Cc:</b> Nuala Thomson <nuala.t@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] 'Magic mushroom' compound may work just as well as antidepressants, small study finds<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>>…Placebo effects are extremely effective for some people. The power of brains and what and how we think affecting our lives never ceases to amaze me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That reminded me of a couple stories I heard once but cannot find reputable sources to share.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cancer and "spontaneous regression", and law of attraction used in terms of health. Then all the religious stuff of miracle cures and what-have-you.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Are you able to share more deeply what is going on in your head for placebo squared? I'm more than happy to try that on myself instead of another elbow operation!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Nuala, well in all honesty I must reluctantly confess that placebo squared doesn’t always work. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>For instance… when I was a teenager, my prospects were few but the instinct was at a level that could be plausibly be called a malady. I heard that cold showers would help cure that, bzzzt, they don’t. I heard that potassium nitrate was supposed to do the trick, but that didn’t work either. So I tried to imagine some kind of at least temporary cure, but the teenage hormones overpowered even the mighty placebo squared effect. Mistakes were made. More specifically, a fool was made, of myself. Eh, plenty of us here were teenagers at some point. Life should have a reset button of some sort, where our teenage years were just a practice run and the foolish embarrassing epic fails are deleted, or at least diminished.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Fortunately for me, my capacity for enduring embarrassment knows no bounds.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regarding hurting my back: it goes back to an injury I sustained at age 10 in a fall. It never quite healed right, but I dealt with it. Now, after the chiropractor experience and the times I just had to tough it out, I believe in that case I just hafta get tough, wait for nature to take her leisurely course.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I do apologize madam, for I have no wisdom to bestow upon my faithful minion regarding your elbow. I am an absurdly smart guy, a legend in my own mind. But I ain’t no doctor, don’t even play one on the internet. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If it doesn’t get better on its own, look at it this way: you and I are fortunate in that we were born so late in history. No doubt you are still more fortunate than I in that regard. Medical science has advanced to the point where they have a lotta stuff in their bag of tricks. Back in the olden days, they would tie a sling on it and demand you get back to work with your good arm. This observation led to my comment to Johnny Grigg about the ruthfulness of our economy: things are better than they used to be. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>See your medic. Best wishes to you, young lady. May you recover soon and fully. I need all the minions I can get.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>spike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat., Apr. 24, 2021, 02:58 William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat, <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>Spike, why do you keep hurting your back? Expecting different results from what you are doing? Are you doing your stretches? Core exercises? Good habits to start at your age. And buy a TENS unit: brand iReliev preferred.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>Most things don't last for very long, with or without treatment. Your experience does not mean that the prior chiropractor treatment didn't work. bill w<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:14 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat<br><b>Cc:</b> William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] 'Magic mushroom' compound may work just as well as antidepressants, small study finds<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>…<span style='color:black'>Nearly everyone underestimates the power of the placebo effect. Or even think it's not real - as if mental was not real. bill </span>w</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Not me Billw, I overestimate it, intentionally, because of a remarkable discovery. Read on please sir. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>If one has sufficient belief in the placebo effect, one can save time and money by skipping the fake medication or therapy, which one would know (by itself) is ineffective against the malady, but one knows the placebo effect works even if one doesn’t believe in it. In order for the placebo effect to work under those circumstances, one must imagine one ate the fake medication or underwent the fake therapy. This is what I call the placebo squared effect.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>I have a recent example. I injured my back so severely a few yrs ago I couldn’t even drive my car. In desperate agony, I walked to a nearby chiropractor, a questionable therapy I had previously refused because of its pseudoscientific nature. It worked! I recovered completely in a few days.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>On a camping trip last week, I injured my back severely once again, same place (lumbar 4.) Being on the road on the way out and not wanting to spoil my family’s trip, I had not the option to visit a chiropractor, so I resorted to the placebo squared effect. I imagined I went to the chiropractor and underwent what I think is a placebo effect therapy. It worked! I recovered in a few days.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The difference this time was that I had no “doctor” bills to pay afterwards, for placebo squared therapy is free of charge and best of all, it does not require a “doctor” putting her gropey paws on me, which I find most distasteful.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>You’re quite welcome, my pleasure sir.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>spike</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>