<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>The only way to scientifically test a theory regarding consciousness, such as the uploading theory, is to have a consciousness perform the observations of tests on itself or entities that are similar enough. If the consciousness cannot detect any effect or change whatsoever, then scientifically one must conclude that there was no effect on consciousness. If uploading was performed gradually such that simulated neurons gradually replace the biological ones through some connection, then the consciousness could observe any noticeable changes. In a proper upload(correctly simulates all the neurons and accompanying molecules), the subject cannot notice a change because a proper upload preserves behavior. Therefore there cannot be any observation that gives evidence that a proper upload does not preserve consciousness.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The belief that uploading does not preserve consciousness then must stem from a conviction that there is some attribute to consciousness that is not observable, even to the subject herself. This is of course an unscientific belief, but many, even seemingly rational, people believe in such ethereal things. I think people like attaching mysterious attributes to consciousness because it makes them feel special, that they transcend the material world.<o:p></o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">Ben via extropy-chat</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 4, 2021 4:25 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:ben@zaiboc.net">Ben</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [ExI] Pascals wager</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On 04/05/2021 18:00, bill w wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> atheism has no goals to offer people</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Not so sure about that, either.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I'd call achieving an unblinkered, rational view of the world a goal. A </p><p class=MsoNormal>very worthy one, too.</p><p class=MsoNormal>I'd call combating the evils of religion in a non-violent way a worthy </p><p class=MsoNormal>goal as well.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Many atheists still have what I call a 'crypto-dualist' worldview, which </p><p class=MsoNormal>is betrayed in their language. They may say they have no beliefs in the </p><p class=MsoNormal>supernatural, but then say things which reveal some kind of conviction </p><p class=MsoNormal>that there is something non-natural about the mind, for instance. Look a </p><p class=MsoNormal>the number of atheists who can't take the final step to fully embrace </p><p class=MsoNormal>materialism, and as a consequence deny that uploading can work, for </p><p class=MsoNormal>instance ("it would 'only' be a copy!!").</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I'd say that an important goal of atheism is to divest oneself of any </p><p class=MsoNormal>trace of non-materialism, to fully accept that the mind is a result of </p><p class=MsoNormal>physical processes, and all the consequences of that view. And yes, I </p><p class=MsoNormal>know how difficult that can be. For many people, atheism is just as much </p><p class=MsoNormal>a challenge as any religious path. But far more rewarding, in my view.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-- </p><p class=MsoNormal>Ben Zaiboc</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________</p><p class=MsoNormal>extropy-chat mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</p><p class=MsoNormal>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>