<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>…</b>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] ufos and gentle things was: RE: Optical illusion tricks you into seeing different colors<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 9:50 AM Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>after suggesting 'eff the ineffable' is a source of confusion and frustration (it is for me)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>>…If you're looking for reasons to steer away from that term, it should perhaps also be noted that "eff" and "eff the ineffable" are used as semi-polite versions of certain obscene, sex-related terms in certain circles. Adrian<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hey, it is better to be obscene than no scene at all.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If I may risk going off in a direction having nothing to do with qualia (which I already did anyway) consider please the following 2 scenario thought experiment.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Scenario 1: imagine a restaurant meal you like and a setting you enjoy. Get crazy-starving hungry, get that meal take out, go to that location. For instance, our local park is perfectly maintained, Burger King, huge greasy whopper, long salty fries with ranch dressing, tall frosty cola, out to the park, birds chirping, sun shining, pretty girls strolling by displaying their wares, oooooh life… is… goooooood.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Scenario 2: Same crazy-starving hungry, same Burger King, but this time stay in the parking lot, throw the whole mess in a portable blender, two minutes on frappe. Drink.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>From the point of view of the stomach, either scenario delivers the same materials in the same proportions in roughly the same state more or less. But the brain would perceive those two scenarios very differently. In scenario 2, it would likely compel the stomach to barf, even if it ever got that far.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>For people who didn’t grow up slamming such delectable viands, the scenario 1 meal might be as distasteful to <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>as the scene 2 frapped version is to me. It is the same food either way, just two different brains. They would even have the same name for it, but the two brains would perceive it very differently.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Rather than get to the point I was trying to make, by merely writing the above scenarios, I have made myself lust for a big greasy value meal and the prandial jocularity in the local park for a pleasant scenario 1. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>spike <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>