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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 28, 2021 11:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Cc:</b> Adrian Tymes <atymes@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] florida building collapse<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(Quoting Spike's letter in full to preserve the photos.)<br><br>>…It looks to me like there is still water in the left (deeper) side of the pool, and that the collapsed area - at least the surface part - does not quite intersect the pool, though the debris suggests the collapse might have intersected the pool's plumbing, draining part but not all of the pool. Just to the pool's right, there is more than enough collapsed space for most of the pool's water to have sloshed out onto - thus, there's no need to speculate about whether the sinkhole itself was wet or dry, when the "missing" water could have spilled out on top of the collapse (and then evaporated).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Or drained somewhere, ja. Not evaporated. Adrian you have had the good fortune to grow up in a dry climate. In Florida, particularly in the summer, the humidity is seldom much below 80%. One can go to the locker room early before anyone else is around, get a shower, track thru on the concrete floor, come back an hour later and wet tracks are still clearly visible.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This is part of what is puzzling: the elevation is so low in most of those areas, there isn’t much space for water to drain anywhere. I see what you meant that the deep end of the pool still contains water, which suggests it wasn’t broken pipes below that drained the pool. A pool drain is at the deepest part of the deep end, one place only (usually.) the shallow end of a standard pool is usually 4 ft. This looks like the water might have drained through structural compromise of the shallow end, closest to where the deck gave out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This photo points away from the structural engineers and toward the geologists who certified the site for a mid-rise.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>spike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 10:57 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] florida building collapse<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>>…Maybe she just noticed the swimming pool empty because she didn't have line of sight to see what was happening to the lower floors of the building she was in? spike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Adrian help me make sense of this photo pls:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><img border=0 width=588 height=274 style='width:6.125in;height:2.8541in' id="gmail-m_5734879034853012887Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D76C14.50981990"><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The woman who was on the phone told her husband that the pool deck had caved in:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><img border=0 width=310 height=300 style='width:3.2291in;height:3.125in' id="gmail-m_5734879034853012887Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D76C14.50981990"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We can see the pool deck has dropped down looks like a good coupla meters and I can see the pool is empty, but I don’t see water over the dropped pool deck.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What does that tell us? Where did the pool water go? Usually a sinkhole is an underground cave filled with water, but this one didn’t have water down there. I can’t figure out why because the sea level is only a few ft below that bottom floor. Where I cheerfully squandered my tragically misspent childhood, a young miscreant could not dig a hole deeper than about 5 ft before hitting mud. Another ft below that, the hole would fill with water as fast as she could haul it out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I don’t understand how there could have been a big dry underground cave, but the initial photos suggested it: 12 stories of debris would make a taller pile than it looks like, unless a good portion of the debris is currently below the surrounding ground level.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Imagine the psychological impact for anyone, particularly Floridians, who live or work in high rise buildings. Every time they hear a creak or pop, they will hafta wonder if their time on this mortal coil is drawing to an abrupt close within seconds. That would hafta break one’s concentration.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>spike<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>