<div dir="ltr">And in the time it takes them to do it, the US's nuclear strike capability can be wrecked.<div><br></div><div>That aside, launching a counterstrike against China or Russia just means more devastation visited upon the US in response. Other actors might plausibly be believed to not be able to strike back against a counterstrike.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:38 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">The intelligence agencies would have to uncover a definite smoking gun before revenge was sought.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:02 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Still enough to potentially cause US nukes not to fly back in retaliation, for fear of hitting an innocent country.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:01 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">The only hostile nations with the ability to attack America that way are Russia, China, Iran (sooner rather than later) and North Korea. A very short list... </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:47 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">No, it'd be obvious it wasn't terrorists. This is way beyond what terrorists can muster. Only China has motivation and capability to nuke Taiwan...but China isn't the only one able and willing (if they think they can get away with it) to nuke the US.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:32 PM John Grigg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">And so the CCP does this "secretly" to Taiwan and then says to them, "oh, my gosh!" "What a horrible act of terrorism some unknown villains did to you!" "Well, due to our huge concern for you, we will immediately send 250,000 members of our armed services with lots of equipment to help you rebuild!" LOL <div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:23 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">"Defeatist" might be elaborating on the possibility of nuclear torpedoes, launched deniably underwater, coming within a kilometer or so of the shore, popping up, and nuking whatever near-shore city there is. Note that around half of America's biggest cities are near or on an oceanic coast. As they only show up on sensors (sonar at first) well after being fired, there's no proof of who to retaliate against, removing the biggest practical obstacle to a major power using them.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 10:26 PM John Grigg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Oh, and don't forget about the Russian super-cavitation torpedoes! Lol But what about drone swarms around warships, to keep them safe above and below the water? And my understanding is that far more powerful lasers will be deployed on our ships within the next few years. And there are the vulcan guns to shoot a million big bullets at incoming missiles. But of course their targeting systems have to be up to the task. And I would like to think the military has some awesome above top secret weapons systems that are in storage and ready to go, if war comes. <div><br></div><div>Spike, I feel like you are being defeatist, but then you are an experienced engineer so perhaps you have knowledge the rest of us don't. I personally think you don't fully grok how if the CCP is appeased and gets their way, that American hegemony will be seen by the world as coming to an end and things will never be the same. Our allies will realize that when push comes to shove, and then war, that we give in to China. Jinping will play his hand by telling an American president who wants to oppose a CCP invasion of Taiwan, that he is risking the destruction of the global economy and even the world, should things escalate to the use of nuclear weapons. America must not give in to a tyrant who thinks he can get away with such behavior, despite the possible risks.</div><div><br></div><div>John </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 9:40 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>> On Behalf Of<br>
Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat<br>
...<br>
<br>
>...I feel that losing the Taiwan scenario in a war game is just the wake up<br>
call that the U.S. naval commanders needed to keep them from fighting the<br>
previous war. The fact that the U.S. lost the war game might mean they have<br>
not figured this out yet. But the fact that the outcome of the war game<br>
leaked may mean that they have....<br>
<br>
Stuart LaForge<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
Stuart, torpedo technology has far outpaced anti-missile technology.<br>
Torpedoes fly above the water at speeds higher than shipborne lasers can<br>
defend. Result: flattops (and all other surface ships) cannot be defended.<br>
<br>
We have had Taiwan money flowing into the states for a long time now. What<br>
I read in this leak is that the US is signaling to the money remaining in<br>
Taiwan to get out now: the USA will not defend because it cannot. But the<br>
USA will cheerfully accept rich people from Taiwan to come here to live in<br>
peace.<br>
<br>
spike <br>
<br>
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