<div dir="ltr">Obligatory p-Zombie humor:<div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/fsDz6HieZJBu54Yes/zombies-the-movie">https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/fsDz6HieZJBu54Yes/zombies-the-movie</a><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 1:26 AM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 16:16, Anton Sherwood via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" dir="auto">A suggestion, at least, has been made that self-awareness appears when a <br>
mental model of the world, and behavior consequent to that model, <br>
becomes complex enough that it must take itself into account.<br>
Then it's an inevitable consequence of agency + increasing brainpower.<br>
<br>
But maybe some of you are thinking "that's not what I mean by <br>
consciousness / sapience / sentience."<br>
<br>
On 2021-9-26 16:37, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> I'll bet neurologists could tell us several places in the brain<br>
> which, if deadened, would lead to loss of consciousness.<br>
<br>
You appear to have switched from one definition of 'consciousness' <br>
(associated with self-awareness; what a philosophical zombie lacks) to <br>
another (responsiveness to stimuli).</blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What you are describing is sometimes called the distinction between access consciousness (responsiveness to stimuli) and phenomenal consciousness (what a philosophical zombie lacks). There is an argument that they are the same thing, and philosophical zombies are impossible:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div><a href="https://philarchive.org/archive/MCDTOA" target="_blank">https://philarchive.org/archive/MCDTOA</a></div><br></div><div dir="auto"><div><a href="https://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/dennett/papers/unzombie.htm" target="_blank">https://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/dennett/papers/unzombie.htm</a></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" dir="auto"></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
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