<div dir="ltr">That's easy: kill them by some other means.<div><br></div><div>More humanely IF possible: immunize enough people for long enough that COVID-19 itself dies off, by running out of hosts, much like polio types 2 and 3.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:24 PM Sherry Knepper via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">And how can it be certain the immunity is permanent, meaning if the person dies it will not be from COVID-19?<br><br><div id="gmail-m_-7411992923058340271ymail_android_signature"><a id="gmail-m_-7411992923058340271ymail_android_signature_link" href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div> <br> <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 20px"> <div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(109,0,246)"> <div>On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 1:16 AM, Sherry Knepper</div><div><<a href="mailto:guessmyneeds@yahoo.com" target="_blank">guessmyneeds@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding:10px 0px 0px 20px;margin:10px 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(109,0,246)"> <div id="gmail-m_-7411992923058340271yiv8526463582"><div><br clear="none">But how many shots are needed for the vaccine requirement for the 100% covid19 immunity?<br clear="none"><div id="gmail-m_-7411992923058340271yiv8526463582ymail_android_signature"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="gmail-m_-7411992923058340271yiv8526463582ymail_android_signature_link" href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div> <br clear="none"> <div id="gmail-m_-7411992923058340271yiv8526463582yqt38396"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 20px"> <div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(109,0,246)"> <div>On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 1:02 PM, Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat</div><div><<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding:10px 0px 0px 20px;margin:10px 0px 0px;border-left:1px solid rgb(109,0,246)"> <br clear="none">According this article in Nature, people who have caught and survived <br clear="none">COVID infection and subsequently get the COVID vaccine develop super <br clear="none">immunity aka hybrid immunity. This super immunity protects the patient <br clear="none">against every POSSIBLE COVID strain. They tested this by creating <br clear="none">every possible mutation of the viral spike protein and testing patient <br clear="none">antibodies against them. People who are super immune seem protected <br clear="none">against all strains of COVID past, present, and future. Scientists are <br clear="none">hoping a third vaccine dose creates the same kind of super immunity as <br clear="none">having recovered the disease and getting vaccinated.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x" target="_blank">https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02795-x</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Around a year ago — before Delta and other variants entered the <br clear="none">COVID-19 lexicon — virologists Theodora Hatziioannou and Paul <br clear="none">Bieniasz, both at the Rockefeller University in New York City, set out <br clear="none">to make a version of a key SARS-CoV-2 protein with the ability to <br clear="none">dodge all the infection-blocking antibodies our body makes.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The goal was to identify the parts of spike — the protein SARS-CoV-2 <br clear="none">uses to infect cells — that are targeted by these neutralizing <br clear="none">antibodies in order to map a key part of our body's attack on the <br clear="none">virus. So the researchers mixed and matched potentially concerning <br clear="none">mutations identified in lab experiments and circulating viruses, and <br clear="none">tested their Franken-spikes in harmless ‘pseudotype’ viruses incapable <br clear="none">of causing COVID-19. In a study published this September in Nature1, <br clear="none">they reported that a spike mutant containing 20 changes was fully <br clear="none">resistant to neutralizing antibodies made by most of the people tested <br clear="none">who had been either infected or vaccinated — but not to everyone’s.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Those who had recovered from COVID-19 months before receiving their <br clear="none">jabs harboured antibodies capable of defanging the mutant spike, which <br clear="none">displays much more resistance to immune attack than any known <br clear="none">naturally occurring variant. These peoples’ antibodies even blocked <br clear="none">other types of coronaviruses. “It’s very likely they will be effective <br clear="none">against any future variant that SARS-CoV-2 throws against them,” says <br clear="none">Hatziioannou.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">As the world watches out for new coronavirus variants, the basis of <br clear="none">such ‘super-immunity’ has become one of the pandemic’s great <br clear="none">mysteries. Researchers hope that, by mapping the differences between <br clear="none">the immune protection that comes from infection compared with that <br clear="none">from vaccination, they can chart a safer path to this higher level of <br clear="none">protection.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">“It has implications on boosters and how our immune responses are <br clear="none">primed for the next variant that emerges,” says Mehul Suthar, a <br clear="none">virologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. “We’re flying by <br clear="none">the seat of our pants trying to figure this stuff out.”<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Hybrid immunity<br clear="none">Not long after countries began rolling out vaccines, researchers <br clear="none">started noticing unique properties of the vaccine responses of people <br clear="none">who had previously caught and recovered from COVID-19. “We saw that <br clear="none">the antibodies come up to these astronomical levels that outpace what <br clear="none">you get from two doses of vaccine alone,” says Rishi Goel, an <br clear="none">immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia who is <br clear="none">part of a team studying super-immunity — or ‘hybrid immunity’, as most <br clear="none">scientists call it.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Initial studies of people with hybrid immunity found that their serum <br clear="none">— the antibody-containing portion of blood — was far better able to <br clear="none">neutralize immune-evading strains, such as the Beta variant identified <br clear="none">in South Africa, and other coronaviruses, compared with ‘naive’ <br clear="none">vaccinated individuals who had never encountered SARS-CoV-22. It <br clear="none">wasn’t clear whether this was just due to the high levels of <br clear="none">neutralizing antibodies, or to other properties.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The most recent studies suggest that hybrid immunity is, at least <br clear="none">partly, due to immune players called memory B cells. The bulk of <br clear="none">antibodies made after infection or vaccination come from short-lived <br clear="none">cells called plasmablasts, and antibody levels fall when these cells <br clear="none">inevitably die off. Once plasmablasts are gone, the main source of <br clear="none">antibodies becomes much rarer memory B cells that are triggered by <br clear="none">either infection or vaccination.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">International COVID-19 trial to restart with focus on immune responses<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Some of these long-lived cells make higher-quality antibodies than <br clear="none">plasmablasts, says Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at the <br clear="none">Rockefeller. That’s because they evolve in organs called lymph nodes, <br clear="none">gaining mutations that help them to bind more tightly to the spike <br clear="none">protein over time. When people who recovered from COVID-19 are <br clear="none">re-exposed to SARS-CoV-2’s spike, these cells multiply and churn out <br clear="none">more of these highly potent antibodies.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">“You get a sniff of antigen, in this case of mRNA vaccine, and those <br clear="none">cells just explode,” says Goel. In this way, a first vaccine dose in <br clear="none">someone who has previously been infected is doing the same job as a <br clear="none">second dose in someone who has never had COVID-19.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Potent antibodies<br clear="none">Differences between the memory B cells triggered by infection and <br clear="none">those triggered by vaccination — as well as the antibodies they make — <br clear="none">might also underlie the heightened responses of hybrid immunity. <br clear="none">Infection and vaccination expose the spike protein to the immune <br clear="none">system in vastly different ways, Nussenzweig says.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">In a series of studies3,4,5, Nussenzweig’s team, which includes <br clear="none">Hatziioannou and Bieniasz, compared the antibody responses of infected <br clear="none">and vaccinated people. Both lead to the establishment of memory B <br clear="none">cells that make antibodies that have evolved to become more potent, <br clear="none">but the researchers suggest this occurs to a greater extent after <br clear="none">infection.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The team isolated hundreds of memory B cells — each making a unique <br clear="none">antibody — from people at various time points after infection and <br clear="none">vaccination. Natural infection triggered antibodies that continued to <br clear="none">grow in potency and their breadth against variants for a year after <br clear="none">infection, whereas most of those elicited by vaccination seemed to <br clear="none">stop changing in the weeks after a second dose. Memory B cells that <br clear="none">evolved after infection were also more likely than those from <br clear="none">vaccination to make antibodies that block immune-evading variants such <br clear="none">as Beta and Delta.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Health-care workers get the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccination in <br clear="none">Portland, Oregon.<br clear="none">Health-care workers receiving the Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. <br clear="none">People who get the vaccine after infection are less likely to test <br clear="none">positive for COVID-19 than individuals with no history of <br clear="none">infection.Credit: Paula Bronstein/Getty<br clear="none"><br clear="none">A separate study found that, compared with mRNA vaccination, infection <br clear="none">leads to a pool of antibodies that recognize variants more evenly by <br clear="none">targeting diverse regions of spike6. The researchers also found that <br clear="none">people with hybrid immunity produced consistently higher levels of <br clear="none">antibodies, compared with never-infected vaccinated people, for up to <br clear="none">seven months. Antibody levels were also more stable in people with <br clear="none">hybrid immunity, reports the team led by immunologist Duane Wesemann <br clear="none">at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">‘Not surprising’<br clear="none">Many studies of hybrid immunity haven’t followed naive vaccine <br clear="none">recipients for as long as those who recovered from COVID-19, and it’s <br clear="none">possible their B cells will make antibodies that gain potency and <br clear="none">breadth with more time, additional vaccine doses, or both, researchers <br clear="none">say. It can take months for a stable pool of memory B cells to <br clear="none">establish itself and mature.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">“It’s not surprising that people infected and vaccinated are getting a <br clear="none">nice response,” says Ali Ellebedy, a B-cell immunologist at Washington <br clear="none">University in St. Louis, Missouri. “We are comparing someone who <br clear="none">started the race three to four months ago to someone who started the <br clear="none">race now.”<br clear="none"><br clear="none">There is some evidence that people who received both jabs without <br clear="none">previously being infected seem to be catching up. Ellebedy’s team <br clear="none">collected lymph-node samples from mRNA-vaccinated individuals and <br clear="none">found signs that some of their memory B cells triggered by the <br clear="none">vaccination were gaining mutations, up to 12 weeks after the second <br clear="none">dose, that enabled them to recognize diverse coronaviruses, including <br clear="none">some that cause common colds7.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Goel, University of Pennsylvania immunologist John Wherry and their <br clear="none">colleagues found signs that six months after vaccination, memory B <br clear="none">cells from naive individuals were continuing to grow in number and <br clear="none">evolve greater capacity to neutralize variants8. Antibody levels fell <br clear="none">after vaccination, but these cells should start cranking out <br clear="none">antibodies if they encounter SARS-CoV-2 again. “The reality is you <br clear="none">have a pool of high-quality memory B cells that are there to protect <br clear="none">you if you ever see this antigen again,” Goel says.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Booster benefits<br clear="none">A third vaccine dose might allow people who haven't been infected to <br clear="none">achieve the benefits of hybrid immunity, says Matthieu Mahévas, an <br clear="none">immunologist at the Necker Institute for Sick Children in Paris. His <br clear="none">team found that some of the memory B cells from naive vaccine <br clear="none">recipients could recognize Beta and Delta, two months after <br clear="none">vaccination9. “When you boost this pool, you can clearly imagine you <br clear="none">will generate potent neutralizing antibodies against variants,” <br clear="none">Mahévas says.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Extending the interval between vaccine doses could also mimic aspects <br clear="none">of hybrid immunity. In 2021, amid scarce vaccine supplies and a surge <br clear="none">in cases, officials in the Canadian province of Quebec recommended a <br clear="none">16-week interval between first and second doses (since reduced to 8 <br clear="none">weeks).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">A team co-led by Andrés Finzi, a virologist at the University of <br clear="none">Montreal, Canada, found that people who received this regimen had <br clear="none">SARS-CoV-2 antibody levels similar to those in people with hybrid <br clear="none">immunity10. These antibodies could neutralize a swathe of SARS-CoV-2 <br clear="none">variants — as well as the virus behind the 2002–04 SARS epidemic. “We <br clear="none">are able to bring naive people to almost the same level as previously <br clear="none">infected and vaccinated, which is our gold standard,” says Finzi.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">How ‘killer’ T cells could boost COVID immunity in face of new variants<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Understanding the mechanism behind hybrid immunity will be key to <br clear="none">emulating it, say scientists. The latest studies focus on antibody <br clear="none">responses made by B cells, and it’s likely that T-cell responses to <br clear="none">vaccination and infection behave differently. Natural infection also <br clear="none">triggers responses against viral proteins other than spike — the <br clear="none">target of most vaccines. Nussenzweig wonders whether other factors <br clear="none">unique to natural infection are crucial. During infection, hundreds of <br clear="none">millions of viral particles populate the airways, encountering immune <br clear="none">cells that regularly visit nearby lymph nodes, where memory B cells <br clear="none">mature. Viral proteins stick around in the gut of some people months <br clear="none">after recovery, and it’s possible that this persistence helps B cells <br clear="none">hone their responses to SARS-CoV-2.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Researchers say that it is also important to determine the real-world <br clear="none">effects of hybrid immunity. A study from Qatar suggests that people <br clear="none">who get Pfizer–BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine after infection are less likely <br clear="none">to test positive for COVID-19 than are individuals with no history of <br clear="none">infection11. Hybrid immunity might also be responsible for falling <br clear="none">case numbers across South America, says Gonzalo Bello Bentancor, a <br clear="none">virologist at the Oswaldo Cruz Institute in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. <br clear="none">Many South American countries experienced very high infection rates <br clear="none">earlier in the pandemic, but have now vaccinated a large proportion of <br clear="none">their populations. It's possible that hybrid immunity is better than <br clear="none">the immunity from vaccination alone at blocking transmission, says <br clear="none">Bello Bentancor.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">As breakthrough infections caused by the Delta variant stack up, <br clear="none">researchers including Nussenzweig are keen to study the immunity in <br clear="none">people who were infected after their COVID-19 vaccinations, rather <br clear="none">than before. An individual’s first exposure to influenza virus biases <br clear="none">their responses to subsequent exposures and vaccinations — a <br clear="none">phenomenon called original antigenic sin — and researchers want to <br clear="none">know if this occurs with SARS-CoV-2.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Those studying hybrid immunity stress that — whatever the potential <br clear="none">benefits — the risks of a SARS-CoV-2 infection mean that it should be <br clear="none">avoided. “We are not inviting anybody to get infected and then <br clear="none">vaccinated to have a good response,” says Finzi. “Because some of them <br clear="none">will not make it through.”<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Nature 598, 393-394 (2021)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">doi: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-021-02795-x" target="_blank">https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-021-02795-x</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Stuart LaForge<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">extropy-chat mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br clear="none"> </div> </blockquote></div></div></div> </div> </blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>
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