<div dir="ltr">Even "kill" implies intent. Can you think of a term that makes it clear that basically all such cases are done in complete ignorance?<div><br></div><div>As to Canonizer - it's a similar problem, and similar to the one I have with most interpretations of Christianity (where Lucifer comes from). You act as if the points of view ("camps") on your site are the only ones to consider. (Yes, anyone can make another camp, but this takes a lot more work to do well and thus is usually not worth doing.) Thus, on many (possibly most) issues, debates on your site start with false dichotomies - and there does not seem to be much if any outreach or research to try to find points of view that someone on your site is not already strongly promoting.</div><div><br></div><div>You have demonstrated that you're just not interested in doing that sort of work: you would much rather debate and defend points of view than actively try to discover what, if anything, you're missing in any given case. Perhaps you might respond that you are interested in this, then I or someone else would call BS, rather than commence research you'll just defend what you've done so far, and it'll be an aggravating waste of time - so I'd rather just not engage in that.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 5:53 PM Brent Allsop <<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Thanks, everyone, for all the helpful comments. Especially thanks Adrean, your examples which are especially helpful. True, I hadn't fully considered the definition of murder, and how intent is normally included. Other's have balked at using the 'murder' term for similar reasons which I've been struggling to understand. But these examples of yours enabled me to clearly understand the problem.</div><div><br></div><div>Would it fix the problem if I do a global replace of murder with kill or killer? Seems to me that would fix things. I want to focus on the acts, and the results of such, whether done in ignorance or with intent or not.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, I apologize for so far being unable to understand the problems you have with Canonizer. Would it help for me to ask you to not give up on me, and give me another chance? As I really want to understand.</div><div><br></div><div>I guess I'm mostly just asking if I am the only one that constantly thinks about this type of "luciferian killing"? I am constantly asking myself if the actions I plan to do today will help, save more people, or not help, killing more people in a luciferan way by delaying the singularity?</div><div><br></div><div>Does anyone else besides me ever think like this?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Brent</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:04 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I have no desire to engage in your Web site (do not bother trying to convince me otherwise: you are unable to address my reasons for not wanting to do so, as you have demonstrated that you will not understand them even if I explain them again), but I can point out a flaw in your reasoning: you assume intent.<div><br></div><div>Most - basically all - behavior that delays resurrection capability is done out of ignorance: the person is unaware of the concept of resurrection, at least in any non-supernatural, potentially-non-fictional form.</div><div><br></div><div>Most - basically all - of said behavior that is not done out of ignorance, is done out of disbelief: the person is aware that some people believe it is theoretically possible but personally believes those people are mistaken, that it is not theoretically possible and thus that there are no moral consequences for delaying what can never happen anyway.</div><div><br></div><div>There is either extremely little, quite possibly literally no, behavior that delays resurrection that is performed with the intent of delaying resurrection. "Manslaughter" would be a more accurate term than "murder".</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:56 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Fellow transhumanists,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">We’re seek to build and track consensus around a
definition of evil in a camp we’re newly calling “<a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/114-Evil/3-Luciferian-Murder" style="color:blue" target="_blank">Liciferian
Murder</a>”. If anyone agrees that this as
a good example of evil, we would love your support. And if not, we’d love to hear why, possibly
in a competing camp.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Already getting the typical blow back of polarizing bleating and tweeting from some fundamentalists, but as usual, nobody yet willing to canonize a competing POV which would enable movement towards moral consensus.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Brent</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><br></span></p></div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
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