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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I would recommend naming it something such as “luciferian lethality.” “kill” still seems too strong to me. “lethality” implies a causation of death regardless of intent.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I personally do not think much about saving people from death. The first step for potentially prolonging life is already around: cryonics. For people with the money, it is simply a matter of choice, a matter of priorities. The main issue of concern at the moment is the relatively high cost of cryonics for the average person and demonstrating that cryonically suspended individuals can be revived. The first issue is one that I have no control over and the other is a matter of further scientific research and for some brings up philosophical issues regarding personal identity. The philosophical problems of identity seem groundless and silly to me, but I am unable to convince others against their philosophical grudges. As for the further research, I do not have the funding nor the influence to make any significant difference.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>All in all, there is little that an individual such as myself can do on the issue of life extension and I suspect others have similar reasons for not spending much time or thought on the matter of saving others. In the end, potential life extension with cryonics is a choice, one that the vast majority will reject for reasons relating to religion, philosophy, the monetary cost, or skepticism concerning the progress of science.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">Brent Allsop via extropy-chat</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, December 9, 2021 8:55 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">ExI chat list</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com">Brent Allsop</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [ExI] Luciferian Murder?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, everyone, for all the helpful comments. Especially thanks Adrean, your examples which are especially helpful. True, I hadn't fully considered the definition of murder, and how intent is normally included. Other's have balked at using the 'murder' term for similar reasons which I've been struggling to understand. But these examples of yours enabled me to clearly understand the problem.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Would it fix the problem if I do a global replace of murder with kill or killer? Seems to me that would fix things. I want to focus on the acts, and the results of such, whether done in ignorance or with intent or not.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also, I apologize for so far being unable to understand the problems you have with Canonizer. Would it help for me to ask you to not give up on me, and give me another chance? As I really want to understand.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I guess I'm mostly just asking if I am the only one that constantly thinks about this type of "luciferian killing"? I am constantly asking myself if the actions I plan to do today will help, save more people, or not help, killing more people in a luciferan way by delaying the singularity?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Does anyone else besides me ever think like this?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Brent</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:04 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have no desire to engage in your Web site (do not bother trying to convince me otherwise: you are unable to address my reasons for not wanting to do so, as you have demonstrated that you will not understand them even if I explain them again), but I can point out a flaw in your reasoning: you assume intent.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Most - basically all - behavior that delays resurrection capability is done out of ignorance: the person is unaware of the concept of resurrection, at least in any non-supernatural, potentially-non-fictional form.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Most - basically all - of said behavior that is not done out of ignorance, is done out of disbelief: the person is aware that some people believe it is theoretically possible but personally believes those people are mistaken, that it is not theoretically possible and thus that there are no moral consequences for delaying what can never happen anyway.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>There is either extremely little, quite possibly literally no, behavior that delays resurrection that is performed with the intent of delaying resurrection. "Manslaughter" would be a more accurate term than "murder".</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 6:56 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Fellow transhumanists,</span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>We’re seek to build and track consensus around a definition of evil in a camp we’re newly calling “<a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/114-Evil/3-Luciferian-Murder">Liciferian Murder</a>”. If anyone agrees that this as a good example of evil, we would love your support. And if not, we’d love to hear why, possibly in a competing camp.</span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Already getting the typical blow back of polarizing bleating and tweeting from some fundamentalists, but as usual, nobody yet willing to canonize a competing POV which would enable movement towards moral consensus.</span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Brent</span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>