<div dir="ltr">All objects with a specific property are made of arrangements of things that lack that property.<div><br></div><div>Colors are formed by particular arrangements of atoms and particles that are intrinsically colorless.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:09 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Yes, any language that uses only one abstract word, for everything that represents 'red' makes that language qualia blind or unable to represent different intrinsic physical qualities which may be representing red.</div><div>All of our peer reviewed physics, in it's entirety does this. so none of it can model different qualities like redness and greenness.</div><div>That is why we use the term 'redness' or colorness intrinsic qualities, to distinguish from red and color intrinsic qualities.</div><div>Something is 'red' if it reflects or emits red light, it has a color.</div><div>Redness, is something entirely different, it is a colorness quality. An intrinsic quality out of which your consciousness is composed.</div><div><br></div><div>A big part of consciousness is the ability to computationally bind elemental qualities like redness and greenness together, to enabl3e computation like: I (represented by something in your brain) intend to eat that strawberry, represented by redness quality, also in your brain.</div><div><br></div><div>Adrian claimed my definition is circular.</div><div><br></div><div>No it isn't circular. If we experimentally demonstrated that our description of glutamate, reacting in a synapse, is your redness, and glycine is your greenness, then these would be saying the same thing.</div><div><br>objective version: My glutamate knowledge is like your glycine knowledge, both of which we call red.</div><div>Subjective version: My redness knowledge is like your greenness knowledge, both of which we call red.</div><div><br></div><div>Just because our brain seems be gray (we represent out knowledge of it with something that has a greyness quality) doesn't mean al that stuff is actually gray.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Another important part of all this, is there are two ways to gain knowledge.</div><div>We can see colors, (can be mistaken, if you get the dictionary wrong) and we directly apprehend colorness qualities (can't be mistaken), representing our knowledge of colored things, the final result of color perception.</div><div>For more detail see our <a href="https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness/?chapter=differentiate_reality_knowledge" target="_blank">Distinguishing between reality and knowledge of reality</a> chapter of our video.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 3:48 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 at 08:38, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I think that what you see is what you get and that there is no intrinsic color of anything. I don't even know what intrinsic means in this context. bill w</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think Brent means the experience of the colour, or colour qualia, as opposed to description of the processes that lead to the experience.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)" dir="auto"></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Happy color festival, everyone.</div><div><br></div><div>Do you guys realize, nobody knows the true intrinsic color of anything? All we know is the colors things seem to be.</div><div><br></div><div>See <a>my answer to a question on color on Quora</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. Thank you Stathis, for your upvote. That is HUGE for me.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
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