<div dir="ltr">@MB:<br><div><br></div><div>"Alcohol was tricky enough": there is this thinking that alcohol is somehow not serious and other drugs are worse. This couldn't be further from the truth. Alcohol, of course, is tricky--very addictive, easily available, causes accidents, violence, health problems, toxicity, sexual assault, other poor choices and violent actions. Alcohol is one of the most harmful drugs. Psychedelics, dissociatives, marijuana, are all less 'tricky' than alcohol in terms of social/self harm potential. "That pit" you describe is a pit of addiction and health issues, which psychedelics aren't really implicated in. Of course in the wrong setting they can be bad, but good trips can be highly encouraged by the right environment and guru.</div><div><br></div><div>@Adrian:<br></div><div><br></div><div>" I know that it can be pleasurable in the moment. It's what comes after that moment that's the problem. Mere pleasure can be had in far less self-destructive ways.": What exactly are we talking about? Your comment makes sense for booze, opiates, perhaps stimulants. But for something like psychedelics, pleasure isn't really the point. The point is a novel sensory/learning experience that specifically has long-term positive effects. While the trip could be confusing or difficult, the aftereffects are the real meat. In that sense they are almost opposite to alcohol.</div><div><br></div><div>I think it is a TRAVESTY that intelligent people have been scared away from psychedelics. You guys being so against them is insane to me. Taking a psychedelic is like visiting the most unbelievable museum, using your brain in ways you did not think possible. They are some of the most learning-oriented experiences I have ever had. They do not remind me of drugs like alcohol or opiates or speed. They remind me of museums, school, symphonies, great works of art and literature. That is the category they belong in. That you seem to categorize them along something like alcohol is, to me, merely a testament to the absolute degree of success of the brainwashing campaigns by our government to convince people (including smart people) that psychedelics are bad drugs that have bad effects. Really, they are tools that can bring out power and intelligence you never knew you had. There's a reason so many successful humans (including scientists, btw) have used psychedelics. Crick himself was on LSD when he was able to visualize the double-helix structure when mulling Franklin's x-ray crystallography images. That expansive, lateral, visual, multi-thread thinking enabled by psychedelics led to the discovery of the structure of DNA itself.</div><div><br></div><div>@Spike:<br></div><div><br></div><div>Don't know why you keep talking about addiction. Psychedelics are not addictive. Those hobos are not LSD junkies.</div><div><br></div><div>"Will, I am pretty sure Sagan wasn’t stoned when he made that video.": How do you know? He was open about his experiences with LSD and marijuana and they produce exactly the type of thinking in the video. While I imagine he wasn't on drugs while recording it, his thoughts within were almost certainly influenced by the aforementioned drugs. You can't bake an apple pie without first creating the universe. And you can't get Carl Sagan without marijuana and LSD.</div><div><br></div><div>"I have fun in this head without chemicals": except coffee I guess? You've said a few things here extolling the cognitive benefits of coffee. Why is it any different? I do a lot less psychedelics than my mother drinks coffee (few times a year vs. multiple cups a day); I would say the bang for my buck is far greater with the psychedelics, and if my mom doesn't have coffee for a single day she gets pissed off, headaches, etc. I haven't tripped in months and the only aftereffects are positive ones. Not sure why the addictive drug that people must use every day or suffer cognitive and physical side effects is somehow seen as morally superior to the non-addictive drug that I can use once in my entire life and reap the positive benefits forever.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 12:47 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 6:06 AM MB via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Back in the 60s when I was in school there were plenty of kids trying out<br>
various things. It was so bad to watch that even as a rather thoughtless<br>
20-something I decided that I did *not* want to go there, to be trying<br>
whatever it was they were taking. My college experience led me to become<br>
the designated driver, as the other guys scared me stiff.<br>
<br>
Alcohol was tricky enough, thanks very much. At present I know people of<br>
retirement age trying to wean themselves from that - and having terrible<br>
trouble. So glad I made the choices I did.<br>
<br>
If I missed something wonderful, at least I didn't fall into that pit.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Same, if more recent. I know that it can be pleasurable in the moment. It's what comes after that moment that's the problem. Mere pleasure can be had in far less self-destructive ways.</div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
</blockquote></div>